Will I get kicked out?

[itsedmondfoo]

My friend and I are planning to count cards at this relatively small Indian Casino. We're gonna play at $5 tables and someone told me they don't even care about card counters with bets that low. So we're not even going to bother with camouflaging so we can maximize our profits. What do you think?

 

[blackjack avenger]

A Little Common Sense Can Go A Long Way

Look around at the other players. What do they bet? How well would you fit in? How do they respond to winners? Are you going to sit there and try for real large wins? Blending in is the best.

In general, small bettors don't attract much attention.

 

[blackchipjim]

kicked out

Indian casinos can get very anal about anyone who shows an ounce of know. Play the fool and have a good act even at a $5 table otherwise they will make you out. When you jump up it will be tough not to have suits around, besides practice your camo at this time. It will be invaluable later in your playing endeavors. blackchipjim

 

[InPlay]

My friend and I are planning to count cards at this relatively small Indian Casino. We're gonna play at $5 tables and someone told me they don't even care about card counters with bets that low. So we're not even going to bother with camouflaging so we can maximize our profits. What do you think?

Don't count your chickens before they hatch you have to win first. Win first then worry about the other stuff later on.

 

[moo321]

If you're playing low stakes, you should pretty much always be playing optimally. Wait for the cover and camo when you're a full time black-chipper.

 

[creeping panther]

Itsed

Tell what kind of game, DD?-6D?-4D?. What kind of spread and count are you using?

CP

 

[rukus]

Indian casinos can get very anal about anyone who shows an ounce of know. Play the fool and have a good act even at a $5 table otherwise they will make you out. When you jump up it will be tough not to have suits around, besides practice your camo at this time. It will be invaluable later in your playing endeavors. blackchipjim

agreed with BlackChipJim, partially - though i think you should be betting and playing optimally at this bet level since your hourly EV is so low and you want the most from your time, now is a good time to start working on your "act" so that you can get away with jumping your bets from $5 to to $60 dollars without drawing any *negative* attention. This act will come in very handy should you graduate to green chips where you will be spreading to black chips.

also, the advice above from BJAvenger about common sense and learning how others are playing/watching pit reactions and trying to blend in will also be very valuable no matter what level you play.

 

[NDN21]

What are the limits on other tables at that casino? If they do not have a real big difference in limits I wouldn't attract attention to myself.

If the limits are similar then you may be the big threat even at a $5 table. No need in letting them know you know what you are doing unless you have to.

Their crew may have read a book about casino counter measures and want to show off their knowledge on you.

Also the house may eventually raise the limits and you would have ruined this casino for yourself.

 

[itsedmondfoo]

Winners

So my friend and I won money from this indian casino but they were on our asses alright. I don't think they would've kicked us out though because we were so obvious. My friend counted and told me the count every round (we did it in chinese ) and we sat out for negative counts. I even gave them my comp card for points.

They did try to counter us by raising the table minimum to 10 dollars (we backed off cuz we're poor haha). They did that to us twice when we just arrived at the tables. But we managed to find 1 more 5 dollar table and played there. We ended up winning 300 bucks with only 90 to start. We brought 200 but we were never down so we didn't use the other 110.

I just wanna thank everyone on this site for all the wonderful info! This is too fun!

 

[mjbballar23]

I just wanna thank everyone on this site for all the wonderful info! This is too fun!

Tell me this after you hit a losing streak.

 

[callipygian]

Look around at the other players. What do they bet? How well would you fit in? How do they respond to winners? Are you going to sit there and try for real large wins? Blending in is the best.

In general, small bettors don't attract much attention.

... but basic strategy players in a vast sea of idiocy will.

If you're hitting hard 13 vs. dealer 7 when nobody else at your table is, you're going to be singled out for observation, even if you're betting red and everyone else is betting green.

Be careful.

 

[Harman]

Indian Casinos . . .

Is there differences in the ammount of heat you get from different types of casinos, as I noticed the thread noted that this was Indian...

 

[blackjack avenger]

Disagree To Agree

... but basic strategy players in a vast sea of idiocy will.

If you're hitting hard 13 vs. dealer 7 when nobody else at your table is, you're going to be singled out for observation, even if you're betting red and everyone else is betting green.

Be careful.

Not many card counters are basic strategy players.

I think most casinos can handle players hitting a 13 v 7 because most players will. The majority of bad players play something that resembles basic strategy. A good dealer will even tell a player to hit that hand.

If you are betting red and the others are betting green, you are fairly invisible. I define a red chipper as always betting red. As a red chipper it is fairly rare when you would have a run that would attract anyones attention. If you are winning every hand then probably the table is also.

We agree, be careful is always good advice.

 

[callipygian]

The majority of bad players play something that resembles basic strategy.

Even at Indian casinos?

I used a few Indian casinos as training grounds a few years ago, and I actually got crap from players and the dealer for basic strategy plays. Probably 3/4 of the people did not hit 13-16 against dealer 7-A and nobody played soft hands or split correctly.

The absolute worst example is when a pit boss actually mocked me for hitting soft 17 vs dealer 6 from third base ("You know if you take the dealer's bust card, everyone's going to hate you, right?"). I was betting $5-$15 with no Wonging, everyone else was betting chunky red to chunky green so I figured I was totally under the radar. Worst of all, I *did* take the dealer's bust card and the dealer showed 15 and then pulled a 5.

I switched to an empty table and immediately got heat - my dealer was switched as soon as I sat down, and I got dealt superfast for one shoe (I was unaware of the significance of this until later). The next shoe, he dealt incredibly slow (again, I didn't recognize what was going on). Halfway through (probably close to half an hour) I finally got sick of it and switched tables again - only to have the dealer switch to my table. The deck was immediately shuffled (the cut card hadn't come out), and penetration was cut to 4 decks out of 8. I finally got the message, played 2 hands, and then left.

I essentially got made for a $5-$15 spread and basic strategy play.

It was helpful to really get thrashed by a completely hostile environment, but my impression is that the play at Indian casinos is just atrocious beyond belief.

 

[EasyRhino]

my impression is that the play at Indian casinos is just atrocious beyond belief.

In my experience not generally better or worse than anywhere else.

Why didn't you double down with your A,6 v 6?

 

[ihate17]

bad players and bad pit advice

In my experience not generally better or worse than anywhere else.

Why didn't you double down with your A,6 v 6?

I agree that the play is about as equally bad in Vegas casinos as it is in Indian casinos.
Where I do see often, but not always, is more bad advice, and voodoo beliefs by pits in Indian casinos than in Vegas casinos. Over the past years, learning something about many of the pits in Indian casinos, I understand why they tend to give worse advice and have the exact same superstitions that bad players have. They never worked in casino towns and many of them had been players at these same casinos when they first opened and later got jobs there. So they learned their blackjack strategy from the same exact players on your table who play a very poor version of their own basic strategy.
In Vegas many of the pits began as dealers (which is also true at the Indian places) but along the way have had more training and more experiences that improved their blackjack knowledge. They also work in casinos where the gift shops also sell basic strategy cards. I know of a pit (and sadly only one) who when asked advice from a player, will actually pull the proper basic strategy card from his pocket and show the right play to the player. To a pit person like this, playing basic strategy will not get real attention from him, but playing basic strategy and then suddenly changing (using indices) will get him curious.

ihate17