6 to 5 Blackjack? Just Say No!
There’s a real crisis developing for fans of casino blackjack. Many casinos in the US have begun introducing a rule change that dramatically increases the house advantage in the game. If you’ve been to Las Vegas lately, you may have seen signs advertising “Blackjack a mazzo singolo” at many of the casinos on the Las Vegas Strip.
But, there’s a catch. Look out for a sign on the table that says “Blackjack Pays 6:5”. In a normal blackjack game, a “natural” or blackjack pays 3:2. If you bet $10 and draw a blackjack, you’ll be paid $15. However, at these new 6:5 games, a $10 blackjack wins only $12.
The casinos have so far been successful in marketing this game, because many occasional players have been told over the years that single deck blackjack is a better game than the more common 6 or 8-deck games on the casino floor.
Using that single marketing angle, the casinos have drawn lots of players to the new 6:5 version, despite the fact that these single-deck games are worse for the player than the worst 8-deck game on the casino floor. Much worse.
Changing that one rule, reducing blackjack payouts from 3:2 to 6:5 adds a substantial 1.39% to the casino’s advantage.
Consider this example from the Flamingo on the Las Vegas Strip:
They offer a single deck 6:5 game, where the house edge for a basic strategy player is 1.45%. (Like most of these 6:5 games, they allow double after split, which doesn’t nearly compensate for the poor 6:5 rule.) They also offer an 8-deck game where the house edge for a basic strategy player is 0.56%. So, a player who chooses their single-deck offering has almost triple the expected loss of a player at their 8-deck game!.
What’s the difference in actual dollars? For a $25 player, assuming 80 hands per hour, the expected loss at the Flamingo’s 8-deck is $11.20 per hour. The expected loss for the same player at the 6:5 single deck game is $29.00 instead. And, remember, this is compared to the game that was previously the worst blackjack in the house!
What can you do to help?
- Don’t play any blackjack game that pays less than 3:2 for a blackjack.
- Warn your friends and family if they’re headed to the casino. Tell them to play the multi-deck “shoe” games instead.
- Let the casino floorperson at your favorite casino know that you hate to see the casino floor filled with misleading games instead of real blackjack.
- If you have a casino host, let them know your displeasure as well.
If players don’t stop supporting these games, it’s just a matter of time before the casinos remove all the real blackjack games. Don’t let it happen.
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Inflation and casino greed is pretty bad right now. Lower limit tables offer 6:5 knowing those customers are naive enough to make up for the smaller bets. However, casinos seem very firm in having normal rules for green chippers.
Encouraging people to complain to the casino management is really good advice. All of these little changes to games really affect visitor’s perception of Las Vegas. Once they start to realize that casino gambling is barely less crooked than a carnival sideshow they’ll stop showing up.
Whatcha gonna to do then?
Keep it fair. Keep them coming.
I’m here in Vegas and BJ stinks now! I brought $5000 with me but if I don’t get
3-2 on BJ, I don’t play. I’ve been here for1/2 day and I am ready to go home. Greed has destroyed LV. I’m never coming back. I checked out about 12 casinos; it’s the same everywhere.
The average player is completely clueless about the rules, odds, and strategy. This has already taken over the strip.
Here is one solution. I usually carry around $1500 with me when I play blackjack. If I go into a casino and they only pay 6:5 I go to the table and buy in for my total $1500 in black chips. The dealer announces to the pit boss that he is changing $1500 which will always prompt the pit boss to wander over to the table. Just before the dealer starts to deal I ask the dealer what they pay on blackjack. When he says 6:5 I say I’m sorry and ask to color up. This sends a message to the pit boss and if enough people do this the message may make it to management. Plus, you may get to educate other players at the table.
I have a solution. At a $25 table I usually buy in for $500 and get all green chips. If I know the table only pays 6:5 I buy in for $2000 and ask for black chips. The dealer will announce that he is changing $2000, and the pit boss will usually walk over to check me out. After I get my chips and right before the dealer starts to deal, I ask the dealer what they pay on blackjack. When he says 6:5 I apologize and say I only play 3:2 blackjack and ask to color up. If enough of us do this the pit bosses will eventually get the message and hopefully pass it on to management. You may also get the chance to educate the other people playing at the table.
The Cromwell has made a big push going the opposite direction. Almost entire retail floor is 3/2 shoe and pitch double deck. $10-$15mins normally from what I’ve seen. Maybe up to $25 on the pitch at times but that’s still better than the rest of the strip. Should check it out.
But isn’t it worth it if you’re counting cards? If it means playing in a one deck game doesn’t that mean that you will recoup the difference and then some? It depends on the cut card’s location and the number of others at the table, and the min bet and max bet of course, but I was just at a casino that had a min bet of 10 and max of 200 on a game like that. I didn’t play that because I wasn’t prepared for it and I thought even if I pulled it off, it was a quick way to get das booten out of the place, to either bet 10 or 200 every hand, the 2 deck game looked more appealing.
No, it isn’t worth it if you’re counting cards. A single deck runs out too fast if you don’t strike with a large bet differential when it goes positive, and you’re counting on the 3:2 payout when you’ve bet high on a strongly positive deck. That also gets you thrown out instantly. It’s not like 40 years ago when you could get away with that.
If you want to take advantage of single decks and not get thrown out you have to have tremendous discipline and keep the differential low, which means you need the 3:2 payout even more. And even then they’ll throw you out sooner or later.
Really, the only way to approach this as an individual player (not a team) is to grind it out with shoes, which when they go positive tend to last longer.
Just came back from MGM Grand. Now blackjack at multi deck games with a show is paying only 6:5. Onl games with $50 or higher minimum pays 3:2.
If you don’t want to play the $50 minimum, play elsewhere.
You’re really kind of a nasty person, aren’t you?
Sorry you feel that way. I believe I provided the correct answer. Perhaps your annoyance would be more directed towards the casinos like MGM that offer the garbage games.
But not dumb….
and your stupid to bet more than 50 dollars of hard earned money too. Blackjack should be fun,not ruined by high stake gamblers like you.6 to 5 blackjack is unacceptable,and anybody that plays blackjack that has a clue would make a stand against these casinos ruing players odds by making 6 to 6 blackjack.whether its 1 dollar minimum,or 1000 dollar minimum,blackjack should allways payout 3 to 2.
I’m staying at NYNY and went across the street to MGM because NYNY had nothing but 6:5 games while mgm had 3:2. Ended up doubling my money before calling it quits.
I wish my dum as wouldve ask and learn alil more about the game before wasting 3,000 up there cause how u bet against the dealer hand and lose then somebody elae step in and win all kinda ways…
I just left MGM. Many of the games were $10 min with 3:2 payout.
/I have a question about another rule change….dealer must hit soft 17. How bad is this for the player? Appreciate any comments
The easiest way to answer this kind of question is to plug in the rules at the strategy engine here and see how much a particular change affects the house edge. In the case of dealer hits soft 17, it costs the player about 0.22%.
Just to update the thread. Golden Nugget in the Rush Lounge had several $15 minimum 3:2 blackjack tables. Unfortunately almost every other blackjack game I have seen in Vegas is 6:5 🙁
Headed to Vegas next week. Staying at the Monte Carlo. Where can I find a list of the best casinos to play at? 3:2 BJ Payout, Re-Split Aces, DS S17, Deep Deck Penetration, etc?
It’s been a while now since I have been to Vegas, but TI consistently gets the best reviews for low limit blackjack games with decent rules. Anywhere on the strip, it’s getting hard to find 3:2 BJ at low limits. Many places just don’t offer it at all until you get to $25+ limits. You also will find most games are now H17. Even downtown is no longer immune. Depending on how serious you are, it may be worth buying a subscription or single issue of Current Blackjack News at bj21.com. They show all the current conditions, updated monthly.
Thank you for the reply, I typically play $25/$50 tables to get the better parameters and no Mid-Shoe Entry. Hopefully with those minimum bets I can get a good game out there. I found this website while searching online, any idea if it is pretty accurate or up to date? http://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey//
I would imagine that the list is mostly accurate. These conditions change over time, but this is a fairly recent effort it appears. It certainly should give you an idea where to start looking once you are in Vegas.
Are you better off playing a single deck game with a 6:5 payout where you can count and increase your bet depending on the count or a six deck game with a 3:2 payout playing only basic strategy (not counting)? I can count a single deck perfectly but not a six deck shoe.
Because the starting house advantage is so much higher in single deck 6:5, it’s tough to spread enough to overcome the house edge. It takes a true count of around +5 just to break even. You’ll spend most of your time minimum-betting as a result, and those bets get expensive when blackjack pays only 6:5. Yes, you can beat this game with a big enough spread, but there are always easier games to beat.
Instead of just settling for basic strategy six-deck play, have you considered learning KO instead of Hi-Lo? It eliminates the need to convert to a true count.
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I am currently using KO. I’m fairly new to counting. With a single deck game, I can count, have two different conversations, and watch the casino TV. without losing the count. I guess I just need to practice more at home with a six deck shoe to be able to do the same. Thanks again.
As you probably know, this battle has been lost on the strip since both MGM and Caeser’s properties now just pay 6/5 (although I did see a single table in the Margaritaville section of the Flamingo still paying 3/2.
Yes, 6:5 has taken over most of Vegas now. You may be interesting in this take on it: The State of Blackjack
A suggestion, after playing at a number of 6:5 tables on the Strip. Depending on the dealer’s up card, if you have a blackjack, do seriously consider doubling down instead of accepting the 6:5 payout. It’s completely appropriate, and I was successful a good 80% of the times I did it.
Ack! No! This is a horrible idea. Read this:
Raddoppiare su un Blackjack 6:5? Leggi prima questo...
Staying at Wynn there are still tables in both casinos with 3:2 and sh17 but you have to hunt them out they are typically higher min bet tables.
E se si conta? La penetrazione profonda in un gioco a mazzo singolo può compensare?
Con uno spread sufficientemente ampio è possibile battere praticamente qualsiasi gioco. Quindi sì, potete battere una partita a mazzo singolo 6:5 con il conteggio. Ricordate solo che non avrete un vantaggio in una partita 6:5 fino a quando il conteggio reale non raggiunge circa +4. Ci sono giochi più facili da battere.
Grazie....
Ho un'altra domanda: Il mio casinò locale ha una forte penetrazione delle scarpe e spesso i giochi sono $3-$1000.
Il gioco a mazzo singolo di solito è 10-300, con il BJ che paga 6:5. Non ho un roll elevato e preferirei essere aggressivo nelle mie puntate, piuttosto che macinare un gioco per 7 dollari all'ora. Ha senso giocare con il mazzo singolo e aspettare i conteggi più grandi e puntare forte (il conteggio del mazzo singolo non avrebbe una varianza molto minore per le scommesse aggressive?)
Non ho fatto alcun calcolo sul conteggio dei giochi 6:5, perché posso sempre trovare qualcosa di molto meglio. Ma, così su due piedi, non riesco a immaginare che il 6:5 a mazzo singolo possa reggere il confronto con il gioco a scarpa profondamente distribuito. Non si può parlare di un grind di $7/ora, ma con un piccolo bankroll ci si troverà di fronte a una situazione del genere in ogni caso. Costruire un bankroll partendo da una piccola somma è un processo lento e per nulla agevole.
Per quanto riguarda la varianza, non sarà molto più bassa nel single deck, nonostante il 6:5 la riduca un po'. (Probabilmente da 1,15 a 1,13 circa).
Le tue informazioni sono preziose e te ne sono profondamente grato. E potrei infastidirvi per gli anni a venire 🙂
Non sono così sicuro che sia così devastante come lo fate sembrare. Una perdita di 1,4% per il banco potrebbe valere la pena di giocare una partita a 1 mazzo. Si tratta di una differenza di vantaggio tra giocatore e casa pari a 2,8 nel truecount. E questo può accadere molto facilmente in una partita a 1 mazzo, se si è a metà del mazzo, è un conteggio di solo 1,4! La deviazione standard del conteggio vero a metà di una scarpa di n mazzi è sqrt(40/n), il che significa che se n è 1, è direttamente la radice quadrata di 40 o 6,5. Ciò significa che ben 16% delle volte, il truecount sarà superiore a 6,5 a metà di un singolo mazzo. Ho visto il truecount arrivare a 15 in una partita a 6 mazzi vicino al cutcard e l'ho visto arrivare a 12 in una partita a 2 mazzi, in entrambi i casi con il cutcard un mazzo prima della fine. Dipende da dove si trova la cutcard. È con 26 carte rimaste? 22? 30? Il 16% delle volte in cui è superiore a 6,5, è il momento di puntare forte, 6:5 blackjack o 3:2. Il margine della casa di 1,4% o 2,8 nel conteggio reale è solo 0,4 deviazioni standard del conteggio reale con 26 carte rimaste e non è affatto un ostacolo se il conteggio è 10 e il giocatore ottiene un vantaggio di 5%. Anche se credo che non si tratti proprio dello stesso 0,5% per conteggio vero, dato che è l'aumento della probabilità di blackjack a spiegare gran parte del vantaggio che si ottiene da un conteggio alto, quindi probabilmente è più simile a 0,4%. La domanda è: quanto sono seri nel catturare le persone che cercano di contare il loro gioco a 1 mazzo con il blackjack 6:5, e qual è la puntata minima e massima al tavolo? Se si tratta di un minimo di 50 dollari e di un massimo di 300, o se c'è una forte tensione, direi di lasciar perdere. Ma se questo è ciò che fanno ad Atlantic City, dove non sono autorizzati a proibire i giocatori che contano le carte, potrei benissimo andare lì e farli pentire di aver offerto un gioco a 1 mazzo, con o senza un payoff di 6:5 al blackjack. Diavolo, andrei lì e conterei le carte ad alta voce solo per prenderli in giro, sarebbe divertente, il payout del blackjack di 6:5 su un gioco a 1 mazzo non è certo un ostacolo in un gioco a 1 mazzo, mi sembra!
Beh, direi più 6,33, visto che 6,5 al quadrato fa 42,25. Ma comunque.
Finally a rational voice…All true…6 5 is a great game to practice counting with low limit bets…One important thing not mentioned…When the count goes hot, which casinos order dealers to shuffle up the second run of cards at a full table…THAT can change everything!!!
Was in vegas all week, haven’t been here in ten years. I can’t believe how these strip casinos have changed this to 6:5 so quickly. I ended up going to the Boulder highway casinos a little east of the strip and found they have the old 3:2 games in all of them. I don’t recommend the strip for blackjack at all anymore ….what a joke.
This is how long it has been since I played BlackJack in a casino. Am just about 50, and in the 1990’s, if you bet 100.00 and won that hand, you had 200.00
in your pocket! Have times changed. Went to Vegas a year ago but did not pay any attention to BlackJack or the payouts. Used to go there several times a year. Good Luck everyone