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I currently live an hour from Tunica and was wondering if it was better to start trying to master counting hi-lo with a shoe game or hi-opt I for single/DD game?
Also, I’ve read some of “BJ for Blood” and wondered what you thought about Omega II?
20,605 hands played +6027. I should be up more but I lost some EV due to not having enough chips to double and take insurance when I was playing a 25 dollar min 1-12 spread(high for DD) since my max is $300 with that max it’s easy to bust a 1k starting bank roll that the trainer only allows.
Hi Ken, I just received the advanced strategy cards and some (but not all) of the numbers for the 2-deck H17 game are different than I’ve seen elsewhere. I saw somewhere (I think Norm W. wrote in his forum) that you should use indexes based on the same method of true count derivation that you use for counting. I am currently using flooring and am wondering: 1) What true count method you used for arriving at these numbers and 2) Whether you think this is the reason for the differences in some but not all the numbers. Most are within one integer, but some are very different….for example, elsewhere for this game I’ve seen the index for 12 vs 6 is -3, yet you have it on the card as -6! Obviously this is a big difference and could result in one $$ won or lost so am wondering if you can clear things up. Many thanks!
First up, check the card again for the index 12v6. It is -3 on the 2DH17 card, not -6 as you mention. (In fact the cards only show indexes between -5 and +5.)
The indexes were created through a lengthy iterative process using Norm’s CVData. Some decisions are quite close, so very small differences in assumptions can create a difference of 1 or even 2 points. In those cases, it’s actually not that important, because the very fact that they are so close means the difference in EV is tiny. I believe these are the best indexes I could have created. Many hours went in to the process. I ran multiple rounds until the numbers stopped changing. (Each index actually depends on those generated downstream.)
To answer your main question… The card indexes are generating by flooring the true count. Just to refresh everyone’s memory, floor(2.9) = 2, floor(-2.9) = -3.
I had the same problem, and I don’t have an answer. If anyone wants to tackle updating this excellent project so it is compatible with the latest versions of .NET and Windows, it has been open-sourced here: https://github.com/mustgoplay/MGPs-BJ-CA
Hi Ken, The Casino (ENHC) that I visit has a good rule – if the player splits or doubles & the dealer gets Blackjack, the player only loses the 1st bet, so this will change the Basic Strategy a little. I’m guessing that in this case I should double a hard 10 against dealers 10, but not sure about splitting Aces against a dealers Ace? Oh, I should also mention that you can only split to two hands. Thanks.
Question about black jack what if the dealer sees the player has over 21 which was the case in my situation and I had 15 and I hit and got an ace and i stayed. Is it the same???
The dealer cannot vary strategy. He hits until he has 17 or higher, and then stands. (The only exception is that many casinos have the dealer hit a soft 17 as well.)
I enjoyed your first article and look forward to reading more. I do have a couple thoughts.
1.) Curling up for the night, in the back seat in a Walmart parking lot, is just a bit too “thrifty” for my tastes. As card counter type AP’s carrying at least partial bankroll on us, I would re-evaluate the risk vs reward ratio on that one.
2.) Seems you identified that you were close to the tipping point, as you left the casino one night, yet then returned the next morning, to “press your luck”, which apparently didn’t go well. Since this “pressing your luck at a place you already knew you were unlikely to get much more action resulted in flyering, and loss of other nearby casinos, it would seem to me this was NOT a +EV move. You lost several nearby casinos for no real reason.
Hi KewlJ, thanks for the input. Valid points—here’s my thoughts:
1) I can agree on some points, but I do take a few precautions, which I can probably also add to the article. The primary being that I would only have such a sleeping arrangement in a very safe area. I thoroughly research before spending the night. To be honest, I’ve felt safer under the lights/cameras of Wal-Mart about 30 mins outside a large city than I have at decently priced hotels in many big cities (think Chicago or Baltimore).
You would be surprised at the number of travelers you see sleeping out at those places, but I agree it is certainly not for everyone, and I wouldn’t do it after a big win where I may have been noticed.
2) Without giving away the area, I can say this casino was pretty much the most tolerant/best game, and this was planned to be my last day there—so I did give up a bit of EV as I could have likely made on hit-and-runs through a couple other casinos on my way out, but opted to play there and hope the heat hadn’t transferred shifts. Good point and good lesson for readers. If you want to avoid back-offs, the signs are often there. If this was local or a place I would hit again in the next few months, I would have approached it differently.
Jake, yes, the variations change according to the true count. However 16 vs 10 changes from hit to stand at even a plus 1 running count and 12 vs 4 , 9 vs 3 , A2 vs 5 , 3,3 vs 2, A4 vs 4 change at even a -1 running count. You then continue to calculate the the variations based on the true count… so +1 t.c = A7 vs 2, A7 vs A, A8 vs 6, 11 vs A and A3 vs 4.
Thanks so much for all the help GM! You’re great!
I have 2 questions:
I currently live an hour from Tunica and was wondering if it was better to start trying to master counting hi-lo with a shoe game or hi-opt I for single/DD game?
Also, I’ve read some of “BJ for Blood” and wondered what you thought about Omega II?
Thanks for all that you do!
Where can I get a list of major tournaments in MS thanks
20,605 hands played +6027. I should be up more but I lost some EV due to not having enough chips to double and take insurance when I was playing a 25 dollar min 1-12 spread(high for DD) since my max is $300 with that max it’s easy to bust a 1k starting bank roll that the trainer only allows.
Hi Ken,
I just received the advanced strategy cards and some (but not all) of the numbers for the 2-deck H17 game are different than I’ve seen elsewhere. I saw somewhere (I think Norm W. wrote in his forum) that you should use indexes based on the same method of true count derivation that you use for counting. I am currently using flooring and am wondering: 1) What true count method you used for arriving at these numbers and 2) Whether you think this is the reason for the differences in some but not all the numbers. Most are within one integer, but some are very different….for example, elsewhere for this game I’ve seen the index for 12 vs 6 is -3, yet you have it on the card as -6! Obviously this is a big difference and could result in one $$ won or lost so am wondering if you can clear things up. Many thanks!
First up, check the card again for the index 12v6. It is -3 on the 2DH17 card, not -6 as you mention. (In fact the cards only show indexes between -5 and +5.)
The indexes were created through a lengthy iterative process using Norm’s CVData. Some decisions are quite close, so very small differences in assumptions can create a difference of 1 or even 2 points. In those cases, it’s actually not that important, because the very fact that they are so close means the difference in EV is tiny. I believe these are the best indexes I could have created. Many hours went in to the process. I ran multiple rounds until the numbers stopped changing. (Each index actually depends on those generated downstream.)
To answer your main question…
The card indexes are generating by flooring the true count. Just to refresh everyone’s memory, floor(2.9) = 2, floor(-2.9) = -3.
Since a recent windows 10/64 bits update program seem to crash immediately and silently.
Fine on Windows 10/32 bits.
I had the same problem, and I don’t have an answer.
If anyone wants to tackle updating this excellent project so it is compatible with the latest versions of .NET and Windows, it has been open-sourced here:
https://github.com/mustgoplay/MGPs-BJ-CA
While awaiting this miracle we can use a virtual machine as a workaround
I simply deleted .Net 1.1 which was previously needed and now it works fine !
Strange because normally the versions of .Net are independent.
That’s great news! I’ll give it a try.
Hi Ken,
The Casino (ENHC) that I visit has a good rule – if the player splits or doubles & the dealer gets Blackjack, the player only loses the 1st bet, so this will change the Basic Strategy a little. I’m guessing that in this case I should double a hard 10 against dealers 10, but not sure about splitting Aces against a dealers Ace? Oh, I should also mention that you can only split to two hands.
Thanks.
Just use the “peek” strategy instead of “no-peek”. This game is effectively just like the normal US hole-card game.
Question about black jack what if the dealer sees the player has over 21 which was the case in my situation and I had 15 and I hit and got an ace and i stayed. Is it the same???
The dealer cannot vary strategy. He hits until he has 17 or higher, and then stands. (The only exception is that many casinos have the dealer hit a soft 17 as well.)
I enjoyed your first article and look forward to reading more. I do have a couple thoughts.
1.) Curling up for the night, in the back seat in a Walmart parking lot, is just a bit too “thrifty” for my tastes. As card counter type AP’s carrying at least partial bankroll on us, I would re-evaluate the risk vs reward ratio on that one.
2.) Seems you identified that you were close to the tipping point, as you left the casino one night, yet then returned the next morning, to “press your luck”, which apparently didn’t go well. Since this “pressing your luck at a place you already knew you were unlikely to get much more action resulted in flyering, and loss of other nearby casinos, it would seem to me this was NOT a +EV move. You lost several nearby casinos for no real reason.
Hi KewlJ, thanks for the input. Valid points—here’s my thoughts:
1) I can agree on some points, but I do take a few precautions, which I can probably also add to the article. The primary being that I would only have such a sleeping arrangement in a very safe area. I thoroughly research before spending the night. To be honest, I’ve felt safer under the lights/cameras of Wal-Mart about 30 mins outside a large city than I have at decently priced hotels in many big cities (think Chicago or Baltimore).
You would be surprised at the number of travelers you see sleeping out at those places, but I agree it is certainly not for everyone, and I wouldn’t do it after a big win where I may have been noticed.
2) Without giving away the area, I can say this casino was pretty much the most tolerant/best game, and this was planned to be my last day there—so I did give up a bit of EV as I could have likely made on hit-and-runs through a couple other casinos on my way out, but opted to play there and hope the heat hadn’t transferred shifts. Good point and good lesson for readers. If you want to avoid back-offs, the signs are often there. If this was local or a place I would hit again in the next few months, I would have approached it differently.
i make living playing bj read a book rookie
Yes who wants to know?
Jake,
yes, the variations change according to the true count. However 16 vs 10 changes from hit to stand at even a plus 1 running count and 12 vs 4 , 9 vs 3 , A2 vs 5 , 3,3 vs 2, A4 vs 4 change at even a -1 running count. You then continue to calculate the the variations based on the true count… so +1 t.c = A7 vs 2, A7 vs A, A8 vs 6, 11 vs A and A3 vs 4.
Well said.