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What would you recommend for books beyond Wong’s Professional blackjack, for someone who wants to really learn hi-lo count and the play as informed as possible?
A suggestion, after playing at a number of 6:5 tables on the Strip. Depending on the dealer’s up card, if you have a blackjack, do seriously consider doubling down instead of accepting the 6:5 payout. It’s completely appropriate, and I was successful a good 80% of the times I did it.
I have a place to play eight decks, H17 , DAS Later Surrender , Peek , penetration 75 % . I can get on the table when you see fit. Making a fixed bet of $ 100 when the count is above +1 , which my theoretical profit after 1,000 hands bet ?
Using Hi-Lo and the Sweet 16 (Illustrious 18 minus the ten splits), H17 DAS LS 75%, only betting $100 in true counts of +1 or higher, your profit is $75 per 100 hands. Your long-run risk of ruin with a $20K bankroll is 5%. But your question was how much expected profit after 1000 hands: That is $750.
Ken: I would like to thank you for your knowledge and course. I read the course did the practice and it payed off big. Had a large bankroll to start $25k and get comps. in Vegas due to my slot losses on previous trips. I looked on websites for lowest house advantage, and started at Bellagio (-.252)6 Deck $25 game, dealer stands soft 17, DAS, Surrender, all the right rules. Played for six hours and noticed was being watched by pit boss after and hour( I am sure I was obvious as first time playing with all the rules and high low together), I varied my play using a 25-250 spread. I was up so I started tipping, staying higher bet after shuffle even made a few questionable plays as I knew they were on to me. Stayed for three days was up $6200 in about 30 hours of play at four casinos. (bellagio, MGM, Teasure Island and Aria) Was wondering for a beginner like me what other advice you have to not look so obvious a counter to the man. Thanks again!
The number one way to extend your playing lifetime is to keep your sessions short. If possible, spread your action across casinos and across shifts and keep your sessions just under an hour.
Great forum.very helpfull for us rookies !!ken an expert counter as u how many hours can he stand playing continiusly with out making mistake or have mental issues?
The issue quickly becomes not how many hours you can play accurately, but instead how many hours you SHOULD play. If you have enough places to spread your play around, I strongly suggest hit and run short sessions of just under an hour. I realize that’s impractical for most players, but it really helps on your ability to continue to be allowed to play. As for the general idea of your question, once you really get comfortable counting, you could play for long stretches with minimal effort.
Since i descoverd this site i cant stop reading !!!all these great informations.in european black jack no dealers down card “hidden” the surrender option works also here ?i see the diffrences bettwen europe and american b.s cards and i think that the hole point is the hit or no at s17?right?at your opinion whick bj is better for the players u.s or european?thanks for your time to answer !wish i could meat u in real and see how u destroy the cazinos !
it does affect you. when the count is rich in tens, the crazy counter spread to 5 hands by way of using his friends, it affects you getting a stiff hand if your 3rd base. He would take all the tens in front of you. these so called myths are truths because there is no calculations of bet size into the equation. A person losing 2000 bucks in that one mistake hand does affect their game. It just cost him 2000 bucks of bankroll. So all the bs that is said to only affect one hand is wrong. That 2000 bucks are valued to many hands that can be played. So in and out proves it affects you. one vs one hand it don’t affect you. but when you have more hands it does as each card dealer gets changes the outcome for each player. it’s dealer’s card change affect all players not just affecting one player.
Well, you make one valid point amidst a lot of misunderstanding. You are correct that a counter who spreads to multiple hands in good counts will hurt the other players at the table. This is true, simply because he is using up more of the available hands before the shuffle and those hands are advantageous because of the count. This is NOT because he is more likely to “take all the tens in front of you”. The early spots are no more likely to get the excess tens than the later spots. Try this thought experiment. Make a deck of five face cards and one Ace. Shuffle the six cards and deal one card to each person at the table. Who’s most likely to get the Ace? No one. They’re all equally likely to get the Ace.
My post above is talking about the fact that how another player PLAYS their hand can not affect your long-term result. If instead they are adding or removing hands based on the count, they will affect your long-term result. Those are two different things.
Last of all, you say that my article is somehow flawed because it doesn’t consider bet size. That makes no sense. What’s true for $1 is true for $1000.
Everywhere the same idiots !!i am not angry with them.i feel sad for them ti play likr they do and throwing theim money !play always basic strategy against card machines and learn count fir the shoes
So with flooring if you have 4 decks remaining and a running count of -3 it would be considered a -1 true and a running count of -5 would play as a true count of -2 and so on ?
I usually discourage tournament players from counting because the benefit is small compared to the other things you can focus on. But in single deck, it’s different. Even though you’re getting only two hands between shuffles, the extra information you have in the second hand can make a difference. You really don’t even need to count all that accurately (very unlike the usual card counting for profit, where accuracy is everything!). Just have a sense of whether the deck is unusually positive or unusually negative and use that information as appropriate.
Timing your big bets for good counts is useful, but probably not as powerful as you might think. Varying strategy is probably more useful in tournament play (again, just the opposite of normal card counting, where bet size is more important.) Consider if you know that the deck is negative, and everyone else at the table has stood stiff against a dealer 6. This is a great time to hit if you have a 12, 13, or 14, because you know it’s not a bad play because of the count, AND it gives you a chance to swing the entire table. Unfortunately, if you bust and then the dealer busts, the entire table will swing you instead! But hey, you have to take your shots somewhere!
What would you recommend for books beyond Wong’s Professional blackjack, for someone who wants to really learn hi-lo count and the play as informed as possible?
My next couple of recommendations would be Blackjack Bluebook II, and Play Blackjack Like the Pros.
A suggestion, after playing at a number of 6:5 tables on the Strip. Depending on the dealer’s up card, if you have a blackjack, do seriously consider doubling down instead of accepting the 6:5 payout. It’s completely appropriate, and I was successful a good 80% of the times I did it.
Ack! No! This is a horrible idea. Read this:
Double Down on a 6:5 Blackjack? Read This First…
Ken ,
I have a place to play eight decks, H17 , DAS Later Surrender , Peek , penetration 75 % .
I can get on the table when you see fit.
Making a fixed bet of $ 100 when the count is above +1 , which my theoretical profit after 1,000 hands bet ?
Using Hi-Lo and the Sweet 16 (Illustrious 18 minus the ten splits), H17 DAS LS 75%, only betting $100 in true counts of +1 or higher, your profit is $75 per 100 hands. Your long-run risk of ruin with a $20K bankroll is 5%.
But your question was how much expected profit after 1000 hands: That is $750.
Thank you!
Advantage estimated 0.75%.
Ken:
I would like to thank you for your knowledge and course. I read the course did the practice and it payed off big. Had a large bankroll to start $25k and get comps. in Vegas due to my slot losses on previous trips. I looked on websites for lowest house advantage, and started at Bellagio (-.252)6 Deck $25 game, dealer stands soft 17, DAS, Surrender, all the right rules. Played for six hours and noticed was being watched by pit boss after and hour( I am sure I was obvious as first time playing with all the rules and high low together), I varied my play using a 25-250 spread. I was up so I started tipping, staying higher bet after shuffle even made a few questionable plays as I knew they were on to me. Stayed for three days was up $6200 in about 30 hours of play at four casinos. (bellagio, MGM, Teasure Island and Aria)
Was wondering for a beginner like me what other advice you have to not look so obvious a counter to the man.
Thanks again!
The number one way to extend your playing lifetime is to keep your sessions short. If possible, spread your action across casinos and across shifts and keep your sessions just under an hour.
Excelent forum !!!until now what i read make things more clear in my head .thanks alot
Great forum.very helpfull for us rookies !!ken an expert counter as u how many hours can he stand playing continiusly with out making mistake or have mental issues?
The issue quickly becomes not how many hours you can play accurately, but instead how many hours you SHOULD play. If you have enough places to spread your play around, I strongly suggest hit and run short sessions of just under an hour. I realize that’s impractical for most players, but it really helps on your ability to continue to be allowed to play. As for the general idea of your question, once you really get comfortable counting, you could play for long stretches with minimal effort.
Since i descoverd this site i cant stop reading !!!all these great informations.in european black jack no dealers down card “hidden” the surrender option works also here ?i see the diffrences bettwen europe and american b.s cards and i think that the hole point is the hit or no at s17?right?at your opinion whick bj is better for the players u.s or european?thanks for your time to answer !wish i could meat u in real and see how u destroy the cazinos !
it does affect you. when the count is rich in tens, the crazy counter spread to 5 hands by way of using his friends, it affects you getting a stiff hand if your 3rd base. He would take all the tens in front of you. these so called myths are truths because there is no calculations of bet size into the equation. A person losing 2000 bucks in that one mistake hand does affect their game. It just cost him 2000 bucks of bankroll. So all the bs that is said to only affect one hand is wrong. That 2000 bucks are valued to many hands that can be played. So in and out proves it affects you. one vs one hand it don’t affect you. but when you have more hands it does as each card dealer gets changes the outcome for each player. it’s dealer’s card change affect all players not just affecting one player.
Well, you make one valid point amidst a lot of misunderstanding. You are correct that a counter who spreads to multiple hands in good counts will hurt the other players at the table. This is true, simply because he is using up more of the available hands before the shuffle and those hands are advantageous because of the count. This is NOT because he is more likely to “take all the tens in front of you”. The early spots are no more likely to get the excess tens than the later spots.
Try this thought experiment. Make a deck of five face cards and one Ace. Shuffle the six cards and deal one card to each person at the table. Who’s most likely to get the Ace? No one. They’re all equally likely to get the Ace.
My post above is talking about the fact that how another player PLAYS their hand can not affect your long-term result. If instead they are adding or removing hands based on the count, they will affect your long-term result. Those are two different things.
Last of all, you say that my article is somehow flawed because it doesn’t consider bet size. That makes no sense. What’s true for $1 is true for $1000.
Everywhere the same idiots !!i am not angry with them.i feel sad for them ti play likr they do and throwing theim money !play always basic strategy against card machines and learn count fir the shoes
???????
Yes, that’s correct.
So with flooring if you have 4 decks remaining and a running count of -3 it would be considered a -1 true and a running count of -5 would play as a true count of -2 and so on ?
I usually discourage tournament players from counting because the benefit is small compared to the other things you can focus on. But in single deck, it’s different. Even though you’re getting only two hands between shuffles, the extra information you have in the second hand can make a difference. You really don’t even need to count all that accurately (very unlike the usual card counting for profit, where accuracy is everything!). Just have a sense of whether the deck is unusually positive or unusually negative and use that information as appropriate.
Timing your big bets for good counts is useful, but probably not as powerful as you might think. Varying strategy is probably more useful in tournament play (again, just the opposite of normal card counting, where bet size is more important.) Consider if you know that the deck is negative, and everyone else at the table has stood stiff against a dealer 6. This is a great time to hit if you have a 12, 13, or 14, because you know it’s not a bad play because of the count, AND it gives you a chance to swing the entire table. Unfortunately, if you bust and then the dealer busts, the entire table will swing you instead! But hey, you have to take your shots somewhere!