Desperate!

J

jimmtech

Well-Known Member
I have been trying to become an AP for several years now but I have become a degenerate gambler and I need help.

I can't bring myself to contact any gamblers help groups as I am repulsed by the image of some Al Franken - Stuart Smalley-like character with an effeminate lisp encouarging me to join some group hug.

I have read BJA3, have CVBJ, SBA and numerous other highly credentialled BJ works and tools. I am by no means as professorial as most posters here, but I have willfully ignored what I have learned about HA,ROR and the eventual futility of voodoo and progressions.

I went from Hi-lo to AO2 to Zen (going to L2 was painfull!). I sought out what I thought were some of the best games I could find and had numerous slugfests where I lost some 100-120 units, refusing to back down from high counts because of the potential loss in score: http://www.advantageplayer.com/blackjack/forums/bj-ppicks/webbbs.cgi?read=5 (Archive copy)
I thought 2D DOA DAS S17 75% and 6D 5.5/6 H17 were pretty damn good, yet the $1000 and $1200 session losses (10-120 yes 10-120 on DD) were pretty hard to stomach.

The emotional high of playing a progression and walking out with $1000 cash in 30 minutes FOR ME has trumped losing a grand and trying to be proud and hold my head high knowing that I bet per the count - hey kid, suck it up - its called negative variance.

Many APer's seem to consider themselves a superior race - well maybe they are - maybe the difference is the addition of a discipline gene or perhaps a martyr-like glutton for punishment gene.

How many put their balls on the chopping block?

My rants are not meant to be insulting, but my rage has gotten the best of me. My once $12K bankroll is gone. Blown, about half trying to do the right thing, and the rest with voodoo, slots and roulette.

It was ok til a couple weeks ago - I prided myself that I had never used any at-risk funds - I had only gambled with money I earned from work and set aside for gambling. AND THEN I started hitting the ATM and now I have cash-advanced away $3000.

I know I am an a$$h@l% and many other things and have never had such self-hate - so whatever insults and condemnations you may fling at me are true.

So the clock is running when my wife is going to find out I have just blown enough $ to create a life-changing event - if I never return to a casino, if will take me 6 months of working overtime every damn week at a job I detest just to recoup this $.

There is no way in hell that earning 1 or 2 units an hour will ever help me recoup these losses. My only solutions are:

More cash advances and maybe I'll get lucky at craps or roulette

Hail -mary bankroll at a good game?

http://www.bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/9719.html

Its hard for me to completely walk away as I continue to get $400-$600/month in cash and freeplay, and I really do have a lot of skill and knowledge that I wish I could properly apply but I keep falling of the wagon.

bj42's post: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13026&page=3

has been the most inspirational

can a gambler reform and really become an AP?

Has anyone overcome this?
 
U

Unshake

Well-Known Member
jimmtech said:
There is no way in hell that earning 1 or 2 units an hour will ever help me recoup these losses. My only solutions are:

More cash advances and maybe I'll get lucky at craps or roulette

Hail -mary bankroll at a good game?
Click to expand...
I have no experience in gambling addiction or anything.

But I don't think those would be your only "solutions". Why not just walk away completely or at least try to? If it means missing out on some match coupons or free play, who cares surely overcoming an addiction is more +EV than a few hundred in match plays in the long term. Easier said than done, I'm sure.
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
jimmtech said:
I have been trying to become an AP for several years now but I have become a degenerate gambler and I need help.

I can't bring myself to contact any gamblers help groups as I am repulsed by the image of some Al Franken - Stuart Smalley-like character with an effeminate lisp encouarging me to join some group hug.

..
Click to expand...
if you are desperate, and you believe your gambling is degenerating then you need to quit.

there is no shame in that.

better to have lost the $3,000 and no more than that, than to end up losing even more.
 
B

bjcount

Well-Known Member
jimmtech said:
My rants are not meant to be insulting, but my rage has gotten the best of me. My once $12K bankroll is gone. Blown, about half trying to do the right thing, and the rest with voodoo, slots and roulette.

It was ok til a couple weeks ago - I prided myself that I had never used any at-risk funds - I had only gambled with money I earned from work and set aside for gambling. AND THEN I started hitting the ATM and now I have cash-advanced away $3000.
Click to expand...
You took on the challenge and it got the best of you. Walk away with the lessons it taught you. Don't look back always look forward. Take up a new hobby to keep your mind busy, write a book on the pitfalls you fell into, what you learned, maybe something that would help others.

$15,000 may seem like a lot to you, but in the grand scheme of life, it's a mear pittance. You'll pay the borrowed money back with some sweat and hard work, but you can at the very least, say you've tried, but BJ wasn't for me.

Hug your wife, be honest with her no matter that she'll be pissed, $15,000 is not a life changing event by any means. Besides $12,000 of it was earmarked for Blackjack anyway. You'll get through the little bump in the road. $3,000 may take you a couple of years to pay back, but take your time and don't let it interfere with your life's plans and goals.

The best thing to do is toss out the casino mail, the flyers, the free ticket notices, etc., shred up the players cards, and try to start your life over. Like a drug, withdrawals are tough to get through, but just look at your wife and think about the love you share for each other.

I wish you much success in life, casino life as you've found, is not for you. Don't worry about ranting, we can always click it away.

and by all means, if you feel really down and in trouble don't wait to speak with someone. The call is free.. NATIONAL HOTLINE 888-GA-HELPS (888-424-3577)


http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/

BJC
 
R

RJT

Well-Known Member
You are no longer in a position to play with any realistic advantage and the knowledge you've gained has told you this already. That's why you're asking a question you already know the answer too.
I agree with those that have posted prior to me. You've hit a point where you are no longer in control of your gambling - it's in control of you. To go back out with more money would be to compound you error - to bet your marriage and life of the turn of the cards. If you talk to you wife now your losses aren't so bad that they can't be appologised away, if you go back out there is a very high chance that you're loss will move from bad to life destroying. Would you go out now and wager your marriage? Because if you go back out that's what you're staking - especially now. When you started as frustrating as it was losing, it wasn't money you needed. Now you're talking about using money that you and your family need to live. If it goes wrong how desperate are you going to feel? Desperate enough to wager even more?
You need to accept that your gambling days are over. Walk away while you still have a life to walk away to.

RJT.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
Get some help. You need to get your life right with God before you do anything else.

Those twelve step programs can be very helpful if you can find the right one. A relative of mine has been in a twelve step program for years, and it has really helped her to understand and combat addiction. There are some very wise people there, and they will help you in very practical ways.

My only problem with these programs is that they teach you to identify with your addiction: "My name is __ and I'm a ___oholic"

Christianity teaches me not to identify with my problems, but to identify with the fact that God forgives me through Christ. Therefore, I have value, worth, and purpose, as well as a reason to stop giving in to this addiction.
 
G

GeorgeD

Well-Known Member
You need to quit. As others said, the gambling is controlling you, you're not controlling the gambling because you can't. There's no shame in thatm, you gave it a try and don't have the temperment. Self hatred is something that only fosters the cycle of any addiction.

In my experience with 12 step groups, they're not for everyone but much more down to earth than "lets all have a group hug" therapy. They're people who have been through what you have and worse.

If you're not into teh religious aspect of GA, they have methods and sometimes special groups for agnostics and atheists.

http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/qna.html


jimmtech said:
I have been trying to become an AP for several years now but I have become a degenerate gambler and I need help.

I can't bring myself to contact any gamblers help groups as I am repulsed by the image of some Al Franken - Stuart Smalley-like character with an effeminate lisp encouarging me to join some group hug.

I have read BJA3, have CVBJ, SBA and numerous other highly credentialled BJ works and tools. I am by no means as professorial as most posters here, but I have willfully ignored what I have learned about HA,ROR and the eventual futility of voodoo and progressions.

I went from Hi-lo to AO2 to Zen (going to L2 was painfull!). I sought out what I thought were some of the best games I could find and had numerous slugfests where I lost some 100-120 units, refusing to back down from high counts because of the potential loss in score: http://www.advantageplayer.com/blackjack/forums/bj-ppicks/webbbs.cgi?read=5 (Archive copy)
I thought 2D DOA DAS S17 75% and 6D 5.5/6 H17 were pretty damn good, yet the $1000 and $1200 session losses (10-120 yes 10-120 on DD) were pretty hard to stomach.

The emotional high of playing a progression and walking out with $1000 cash in 30 minutes FOR ME has trumped losing a grand and trying to be proud and hold my head high knowing that I bet per the count - hey kid, suck it up - its called negative variance.

Many APer's seem to consider themselves a superior race - well maybe they are - maybe the difference is the addition of a discipline gene or perhaps a martyr-like glutton for punishment gene.

How many put their balls on the chopping block?

My rants are not meant to be insulting, but my rage has gotten the best of me. My once $12K bankroll is gone. Blown, about half trying to do the right thing, and the rest with voodoo, slots and roulette.

It was ok til a couple weeks ago - I prided myself that I had never used any at-risk funds - I had only gambled with money I earned from work and set aside for gambling. AND THEN I started hitting the ATM and now I have cash-advanced away $3000.

I know I am an a$$h@l% and many other things and have never had such self-hate - so whatever insults and condemnations you may fling at me are true.

So the clock is running when my wife is going to find out I have just blown enough $ to create a life-changing event - if I never return to a casino, if will take me 6 months of working overtime every damn week at a job I detest just to recoup this $.

There is no way in hell that earning 1 or 2 units an hour will ever help me recoup these losses. My only solutions are:

More cash advances and maybe I'll get lucky at craps or roulette

Hail -mary bankroll at a good game?

http://www.bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/9719.html

Its hard for me to completely walk away as I continue to get $400-$600/month in cash and freeplay, and I really do have a lot of skill and knowledge that I wish I could properly apply but I keep falling of the wagon.

bj42's post: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13026&page=3

has been the most inspirational

can a gambler reform and really become an AP?

Has anyone overcome this?
Click to expand...
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
Oh PLLLEEEaaaSE.

You post this garbage in the Voodoo forum like it's some kind of built-in excuse that you are a degenerate gambler.

Accuse AP's of being part of some "superior" race while you can't even join a GA group because you are so "superior" you can't even endure the handicap of someone with a lisp while your handicap is so much worse than that.

And your only question is seemingly, not whether to borrow more money, but only whether to play it on slots or as a "Hail Mary" roll.

And you want sympathy to have to work 6 months overtime to make up the $3K or whatever?

I wish I had your wife's phone number. Post that here or PM me with it.

Here's what you do.

Tomorrow morning you tell your wife and give her all your ATM and credit cards.

Join GA and hug the guys, even if they have a lisp. It won't make you gay even though you are a degenerate gambler and homophobic.

Call the casinos and declare yourself a "degenerate - or whatever the "politically correct term is" and demand to be removed from their mailing lists and never be allowed entrance again.

Hand every paycheck over to your wife and demand she check the the bank accts daily.

And pray she forgives you. If she does, you are kissed by the Hand of God and shot in the ass with luck. If she doesn't, can you blame her?

Never ever gamble again and never ever ask anyone here again of what to do to save your pathetic degenerate gambler's life, when we all know you haven't hit bottom yet, are in complete Denial, and, pretty much, want to ruin everything.

Do this tomorrow morning.

The next post I ever want to hear from you is that you have your 60-day pin from Gambler's Anonymous.

I don't know what the policy here is, or how far it will go, or when it might refuse to allow one asking how one may possibly continue one's degenerate gambling habits, or in allowing diseased degenerate gamblers of continuing on in their delusion, but I'd draw the line alot sooner than later.

Jimmtech - you ain't an AP, you've never been an AP, you never will be an AP no matter how much money or knowledge you may have.

Still, luv ya to death. Look in the mirror. You know what to do.
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
I try not to judge people, it's not my place, so I refrained from commenting on this thread. But I must say, I don't disagree with a word you say Kasi, only the manner in which you said it. I wouldn't talk to a dog that way, much less another human being.
 
Katweezel

Katweezel

Well-Known Member
Crazy gamblers abound

There ya go jimmtech, a diverse range of advice suggesting a diverse range of remedies. The pain expressed in your post is palpable. I have an inkling that more than a few who read your post may have themselves felt what you feel now, in their lives at some long-past point. I know I did and it cost me a marriage, a house and a career. But that was long ago and I hope you do not have those ramifications of a full-blown addiction that I had.

The way I see it is that you have a great opportunity right now in your life, because you are facing a life-changing situation. So instead of seeing it as the end of the world as you know it, you could begin looking for the opportunities. What? Where? Of course you can't see the trees for the forest right now, but just the thought that this could be an opportunity gives you a new perspective, hopefully.

Casino games, blackjack, roulette, craps, baccarat can all be beaten. But not by you. At least not by you with your current mindset. A tiny minority of the general casino public have learned to beat some of those games. How? By realizing that firstly, they did not have what was required: very high levels of persistence, patience, motivation, skill, discipline, focus, belief, desire... and more. Then, the ability to practice, practice and more practice until the skills became embedded. This could take months, years. Are you beginning to get the reasons why so few make it to where so many want to be?

You seem to be thrashing around this game, that game, in a frenzy. Stop brother. That is crazy stuff. (Been there done that.) Take a series of deep breaths, step back, take a long break. Bury yourself in work, hobbies, sport, something different. Discipline your mind. Are you stronger than any addiction? Focus on thoughts other than casino. You have the power to think any thought you choose.

Finally, never think of yourself as a failure. Yesterday is dead and gone. Now is all anyone has. You may have failed a few times, but you are NOT a failure. Take time to consider your position. First things first; stop playing the crazy, out-of-control gambler. Any casino is full of them. That ain't you any more. Right? After perhaps three months, you may be in a better position to decide on the rest of your life. But for now, just... stop.
Good luck mate.
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
compulsions

I know for a fact that anytime a person has to control something it already has control of them. I would get professional help as soon as possible for your own good. I'm saying this out concern for you not judgement in any form. Anyone who has a compulsion in anything must learn to deal with it or it will ruin them. blackchipjim
 
H

H Bomb

Active Member
Jimmtech my friend,

I recommend that you set an immediate goal of no gambling of any kind for a good period of time. How long? I don't know, but 6 months would be a good start. Once you do, DO NOT GIVE AN INCH. No "quick" trip to a casino and just play "a little". No "10-minute" session online. Not even a seemingly innocent thing like office workers asking you to chip in $1 for their lottery pool. With activities like gambling, drinking, etc., most people can partake in it occasionally and have it enrich their day-to-day lives. But for someone gripped by addiction, it would quickly become a VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE SINKING YOU FURTHER INTO THE ABYSS.

Katweezel said:
Discipline your mind. Are you stronger than any addiction? Focus on thoughts other than casino. You have the power to think any thought you choose.
Click to expand...
Heed what Katweezel said. Words of wisdom right there.

Watch your thoughts, they become your words.
Watch your words, they become your actions.
Watch your actions, they become your habits.
Watch your habits, they become your destiny.
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
blackchipjim said:
I know for a fact that anytime a person has to control something it already has control of them. I would get professional help as soon as possible for your own good. I'm saying this out concern for you not judgement in any form. Anyone who has a compulsion in anything must learn to deal with it or it will ruin them. blackchipjim
Click to expand...
there you go blackchip, it's a rule of classical physics. every force has an equal and opposite one.

it's why like in Aikido two opponents striving against one another, if one just stops resisting he can decide to redirect with minimum effort the force his opponent is applying so as to send his opponent flying by the force of his opponent's own momentum, power, strength and force.

some how, thinking about it, doubtless i could be wrong. thing is jimtech's plight may or may not be so serious. what?, he lost $3000 of the rent money, and it'll take him six months to recoup it working, and his wife is gonna be hurt and po'd big time. the most serious thing would be to patch things up in an honest way with his wife. six months working to recoup $3000 is just a finite amount of time, really no big deal, even if it does seem like a big deal to a working man.
but is he really a degenerate gambler? just me maybe, but i doubt it, but the danger is he could become one. i'd say he was just burnt by the fire that he was working with. that being the case his household chores would be better suited in other rooms of the mansion than the kitchen, lol.

but just stopping going to casino's would be jimtech's 'cou de la force', effectively putting them on their ass as far as he's concerned.

then he would want to find out why it is he finds himself compelled to take risks that are above and beyond his ability to tolerate them. i guess professionals could help him with that or he might even be able to figure it out for himself.
spending time and effort on that matter will make jimtech an AP in life, not just some goofy casino. so yeah just like Kat's point, jimtech has a great new opportunity.

what ever, just me maybe, but i think jimtech's sharing with us all, provides a perfect example of how this advantage play stuff isn't so difficult to understand and master, but it's the tricky and subtle nature of our very poor ability to understand the true essence and nature of risk and it's implications on how it impacts our lives that is a pitfall as far as messing with games of chance or any kind of uncertainty.

authors of advantage play and the investment world will give you some probabilistic measure of risk but ultimately that means virtually nothing if one doesn't understand what the realization of ruin really means for any given individual. Snyder has been about the best author i've read when it comes to the question of the implications of ruin, however imho even he treats it to lightly. Taleb, has been the best author from the investment world, i've read on ruin.

just me maybe but ruin and uncertainty and a lack of our ability to get a 'handle' on either phenomenon work together shrouding themselves from our sensibilities and ability to know while we find ourselves ever enticed by the uncertain prospect of reward. thing is we need reward to survive, so we aren't going to stop striving for it, and to complicate matters even more, reward doesn't usually come with out risk.:rolleyes:
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
compulsions

I am a person with an addiction but I don't partake anymore. It took the consequences to catch up with the addictions and they are not always apparent to the person. Addictions are just that,ADDICTIONS. If you have them under control Good. If you don't they will ruin your life.It doesn't matter what the addiction is just the reasons behind it.Anyone who has addictions has issues that must be confronted and dealt with. I am no counseler nor would I pretend to have the answers to anyone's problems but, if you need help,you need help,get some. blackchipjim
 
I

InPlay

Banned
What you need to do is take a break from the game for a while. It will clear your mind and make things more bearable to you. When things get a little fuzzy for me, I like to kick back and watch a movie to take the edge off. Here is a scene from one of my favorite movies it might give you some insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRHd5pngWE
 
I

InPlay

Banned
blackchipjim said:
I am a person with an addiction but I don't partake anymore. It took the consequences to catch up with the addictions and they are not always apparent to the person. Addictions are just that,ADDICTIONS. If you have them under control Good. If you don't they will ruin your life.It doesn't matter what the addiction is just the reasons behind it.Anyone who has addictions has issues that must be confronted and dealt with. I am no counseler nor would I pretend to have the answers to anyone's problems but, if you need help,you need help,get some. blackchipjim
Click to expand...

It sounds like you want to take the fun out of life.
 
Katweezel

Katweezel

Well-Known Member
Russian roulette

InPlay said:
What you need to do is take a break from the game for a while. It will clear your mind and make things more bearable to you. When things get a little fuzzy for me, I like to kick back and watch a movie to take the edge off. Here is a scene from one of my favorite movies it might give you some insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRHd5pngWE
Click to expand...
Yeah right IP. It gave him some insight into how to play Russian roulette. Just what he needs right now. :gun:
 
I

InPlay

Banned
Katweezel said:
Yeah right IP. It gave him some insight into how to play Russian roulette. Just what he needs right now. :gun:
Click to expand...
If you want to live on the edge might as well kick it up a notch don't you agree?
 
1

1357111317

Well-Known Member
jimmtech said:
My rants are not meant to be insulting, but my rage has gotten the best of me. My once $12K bankroll is gone. Blown, about half trying to do the right thing, and the rest with voodoo, slots and roulette.


Had you kept at it playing such a strong game like that you would have made it back. If you cant keep gambling separated from AP play you shouldnt be in a casino.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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