Outrageous!
- Thread starter creeping panther
- Start date
It's NOT cheating!!!!!
It bothers the hell out of me that anyone considers counting as dishonest or cheating. Personally, I draw the line somewhere between counting and hole-carding. If the casino gives me an honest game, I'll do the same.
First backoff I got (flatbet) was at Binion's Horseshoe a lot of years ago. The pleasant floorgirl simply said that I wasn't "giving them a game" and told me I should be proud of my ability.
Then I talked to a Vegas acquaintence and told him I might talk with the gaming commission. He said "get in line" so I didn't waste my time with that.
Just yesterday at my local store, a dealer paid me $105 for BJ on a $60 bet and I DIDN'T correct her because she was not only rude, but I'm quite sure she shorted me about the same amount on an earlier payoff.
I'll typically acknowledge mistakes both ways.
BillyC1
It bothers the hell out of me that anyone considers counting as dishonest or cheating. Personally, I draw the line somewhere between counting and hole-carding. If the casino gives me an honest game, I'll do the same.
First backoff I got (flatbet) was at Binion's Horseshoe a lot of years ago. The pleasant floorgirl simply said that I wasn't "giving them a game" and told me I should be proud of my ability.
Then I talked to a Vegas acquaintence and told him I might talk with the gaming commission. He said "get in line" so I didn't waste my time with that.
Just yesterday at my local store, a dealer paid me $105 for BJ on a $60 bet and I DIDN'T correct her because she was not only rude, but I'm quite sure she shorted me about the same amount on an earlier payoff.
I'll typically acknowledge mistakes both ways.
BillyC1
kewljason
Well-Known Member
You just can't get excited about what other people think. In blackjack or in life. People make up their minds about something and there is no sense in trying to convince them otherwise. I still have close friends that tell me that you can't win in the long run and expect my luck to run out soon. lolBilly C1 said:
In this case it was just poor journalism. That thought about labling counter's as cheaters wasn't the journalist's own thoughts. They were some casino executive's thoughts, that she spoke with. She didn't bother to think for herself. It is no surprise that the casino industry, including Griffin Agency, if there is even anything left of them, has for quite some time not distinguished between counters and cheaters.
I believe you're right but this differs with people. Having been in the retail business in a small town for many years, image has always been important to me.kewljason said:
Many of my clients go to the same local "stores" that I do. A scenario that I dread is getting "the tap" when some of them are there. Not knowing what AP is, they will surely question what's happening.
This is a very real possibility for me.
BillyC1
beating vegas
Well-Known Member
dont have a heart attack about it i agree with you.leto1776 said:
creeping panther
Banned
Jason,kewljason said:I often have a difficult time distinquishing when you are joking and serious, but I can only hope you are not seriously 'angry' about what someone else thinks or says. If so, I need to offer advice back to you that you have on numerous occasions offered to me. "You need to develope thicker skin".
And when you really stop and think about it, the casino's main objective is to extract funds from it's patrons, so someone like yourself with some knowledge and 'skilz', as you often put it, is indeed cheating the casino out of it's goals and some funds, of which the casino believes are are rightfully theirs. :laugh:
If I had "some knowledge" I would have 'skilz', as you put it,,but I have always referred to skillz, which is much more than some knowledge
and usually, if not always, referring to other players.CP
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Oh well then, with skillz you are cheating the casino out of even more of their revenue,creeping panther said:Jason,
If I had "some knowledge" I would have 'skilz', as you put it,,but I have always referred to skillz, which is much more than some knowledge
CP
so how can you be 'angry' about being called a cheater. :laugh:
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
it was Jesse Ventura's wrestling personaMachinist said:Win if you can, lose if you Must!!!,,,,,,but always cheat!!!!!
Don't know where i heard this from...anybody ever heard it???
Maybe i dreamed it
Machinist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura
zengrifter
Banned
Technically it is deceptive and may constitute a lie of omission, seeing as howBilly C1 said:
we do know that we are unwelcome, yet we presume to play... even after we
are barred, we return.
Somehow that does not seem entirely above board? zg
creeping panther
Banned
Cheater
If one were to become comfortable and accept being called a cheater and thief and did not fight aggressively that propaganda and mindset then you may end up like Grossjean, spending many days in jail,,,fearing for your very life, having your freedom thrust away from you, for no reason at all other than some mindless idiots buying into that propaganda to the point of jailing you and taking that very freedom so many fought to ensure in so many wars.
I personally take great umbrage at that propaganda Bull **** and will fight it whenever possible and at all cost.
"Live Free Or Die" is my motto, and when legal jurisdictions place standing arrest warrants against you for legal Black Jack activities, steal money that is rightfully yours,, the line has been crossed and the war is on.
Which side shall you be on...Warrior,,,or P##sy?
CP
If one were to become comfortable and accept being called a cheater and thief and did not fight aggressively that propaganda and mindset then you may end up like Grossjean, spending many days in jail,,,fearing for your very life, having your freedom thrust away from you, for no reason at all other than some mindless idiots buying into that propaganda to the point of jailing you and taking that very freedom so many fought to ensure in so many wars.
I personally take great umbrage at that propaganda Bull **** and will fight it whenever possible and at all cost.
"Live Free Or Die" is my motto, and when legal jurisdictions place standing arrest warrants against you for legal Black Jack activities, steal money that is rightfully yours,, the line has been crossed and the war is on.
Which side shall you be on...Warrior,,,or P##sy?
CP
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zengrifter
Banned
Many days = 3 to be exact! z:laugh:gcreeping panther said:
zengrifter
Banned
Winner of the "Bury My Heart at Bellagio" post-writing contest. zgshadroch said:
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
no really it's more complicated than that.zengrifter said:
this scenario is one of those instances where society has allowed for a 'dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't' sort of situation, such that an individual who has some intrinsic ability is backed into a corner because of those abilities with respect to other such individuals who for whatever reason can't or wont use those abilities.
the evil represented by this situation and similar situations (ie. in this case an abusive civil rights type of discrimination that society has not recognized except in New Jersey) is such that the minor act of deception that you describe is more than justified, IMHO.
furthermore the truth of the matter is that if casinos don't want games to be exploited by the use of intelligence then it is simply incumbent upon them to not offer such games rather than to discriminate upon lawful innocent civilians.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
lol, well just me maybe, i'm young and easily confused.Billy C1 said:
illegal, apparently not, not that is until the casino powers that be trespass you and you then decide to return to their establishment anyway.
as an aside, does not a law that supports such action 'for whatever reason they deem appropriate' not seem an open invitation for business's that are supposed to be open to the public to commit civil rights discrimination against law abiding citizens?
dishonest or unethical, well mainly my response was to ZG's post in response to one of your posts:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=203641&postcount=31
personally i believe he has a valid point, a point that i had never considered. so who wants to be a deceptive person who commits lies of omission? who wants to foist themselves upon others too whom they are unwelcome?
are our rights as law abiding citizens greater than the desires of some business open to the public?
is some small measure of deception and partaking in the commerce (even though that business dislikes the prospect of our association) offered by a business open to the public an unethical act?
i think not, so agreed illegal, dishonest, unethical? no!
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
yup i know.Billy C1 said:
i just wanted to make the point that (imho) the unfair & what i believe should be illegal (because it abuses our civil rights) practice of allowing a business which is open to the public to trespass law abiding citizens for what ever reason they desire. the game of blackjack is offered to the public and yet all of a sudden the proprietor of the business is allowed to decide (for whatever reason) that he can single out any law abiding citizen from exercising his right to play that game. such action is backed by law, just me maybe but that is just plain immoral, wrong and evil. if the game is not good enough for all citizens then it should not be offered.
but really i was simply offering my thoughts on a justification for what is a minor act of deception (ie. counters vs casino).
that justification is, it seems to me, rooted in the evil represented by an unfair discriminatory trespass law.