Legality of Novelty IDs

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ScottH

Well-Known Member
Me and a friend are having a slight difference of opinion on the legality of novelty IDs. We both agree it's illegal to use a fake ID that looks identical to one that is government issued. I said to get around this you make a novelty ID. As zengrifter mentioned, change the wording around a little bit and add some remark on the back that makes it clearly novelty. My friend still thinks this is illegal because you are trying to get it to pass as a government issued ID still. Even though it is changed slightly, you are still intending it to look like a government issued ID. Anyone familiar with the law here?

Let's say I were to use a novelty ID that was slightly altered, and was caught, what would happen?
 
halcyon1234

halcyon1234

Well-Known Member
ScottH said:
Me and a friend are having a slight difference of opinion on the legality of novelty IDs. We both agree it's illegal to use a fake ID that looks identical to one that is government issued. I said to get around this you make a novelty ID. As zengrifter mentioned, change the wording around a little bit and add some remark on the back that makes it clearly novelty. My friend still thinks this is illegal because you are trying to get it to pass as a government issued ID still. Even though it is changed slightly, you are still intending it to look like a government issued ID. Anyone familiar with the law here?

Let's say I were to use a novelty ID that was slightly altered, and was caught, what would happen?
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Here's a Yahoo answers discussion on it:

https://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070121112345AATxliW

From what I understand, if you get caught at the door, you'll be bounced for sure. If security feels like being a dick, they can call the cops and have you arrested. If you get passed the door and fail an ID check at cashout, they won't pay you. I don't know what will happen to your initial buy-in.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
ScottH said:
Me and a friend are having a slight difference of opinion on the legality of novelty IDs. We both agree it's illegal to use a fake ID that looks identical to one that is government issued. I said to get around this you make a novelty ID. As zengrifter mentioned, change the wording around a little bit and add some remark on the back that makes it clearly novelty. My friend still thinks this is illegal because you are trying to get it to pass as a government issued ID still. Even though it is changed slightly, you are still intending it to look like a government issued ID. Anyone familiar with the law here?

Let's say I were to use a novelty ID that was slightly altered, and was caught, what would happen?
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Each state's statutes are a bit different with about anything, but for the most part, you are using it as a govt ID (e.g. drivers license)...and that carries the same punishment as using an invalid/altered govt ID. I'd say that using it at a casino would be a bit more ballsier than at the college bars. Nobody gives too much of a crap there.
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
I don't know if it makes a difference here, but I will not be using the card for illegal purposes since I am 21. Does that change anything?
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
If you are doing something that you would be ashamed of having it publicly revealed,thus the need for fake id,the answer should be self-evident.Maybe instead of asking if your action is legal,you should question yourself to see if it is moral.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
My position is that noveltyIDs are both legal and moral for casino AP use... BUT, do not get caught with multiple IDs in your possession. zg
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
ScottH said:
I don't know if it makes a difference here, but I will not be using the card for illegal purposes since I am 21. Does that change anything?
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Yeah. But as ZG said, don't have multiple IDs. Of course, if you are in a casino you'll probably need your real ID. Tough call.
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
If you are doing something that you would be ashamed of having it publicly revealed,thus the need for fake id,the answer should be self-evident.Maybe instead of asking if your action is legal,you should question yourself to see if it is moral.
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I don't care about the morality of the issue. I just care about the legal consequences.

Even though I don't care if it is moral or not, I don't see why using a novelty ID would be immoral if I am 21. Do you have a reason why it would be? I'm not doing anyone any harm by using it...
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
My position is that noveltyIDs are both legal and moral for casino AP use... BUT, do not get caught with multiple IDs in your possession. zg
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Why would it be bad to be caught with a novelty ID if they are not illegal? You would have one legal ID, and one legal novelty ID. What could happen if I were to be caught with both of those?
 
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ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
ScottH said:
Why would it be bad to be caught with a novelty ID if they are not illegal? You would have one legal ID, and one legal novelty ID. What could happen if I were to be caught with both of those?
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I think the impression you made originally was that the novelty ID would falsely identify you as someone else...that's why you wouldn't want to have both. I get your drift now.

From a legal standpoint, casinos or whatever most likely will not accept a novelty ID for official identification, so I doubt it would get you in "trouble' per se. It just may be worthless. The circumstances you are asking about have a lot of grey area, so it's hard to answer your question straight.

Good luck with it though:cool2:
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
ChefJJ said:
I think the impression you made originally was that the novelty ID would falsely identify you as someone else...that's why you wouldn't want to have both. I get your drift now.

From a legal standpoint, casinos or whatever most likely will not accept a novelty ID for official identification, so I doubt it would get you in "trouble' per se. It just may be worthless. The circumstances you are asking about have a lot of grey area, so it's hard to answer your question straight.

Good luck with it though:cool2:
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I want the novelty ID to have fake information, but I am not trying to steal anyone's identity or anything.

Of course they would't accept the novelty ID if they knew it were novelty. That is the point though, make it look as if it is a real ID, but have it altered in such a way that it makes it a novelty ID.

Zengrifter, it sounds like you have been using novelty IDs. Where do you get them, how are they altered, etc.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
ScottH said:
I want the novelty ID to have fake information, but I am not trying to steal anyone's identity or anything.

Of course they would't accept the novelty ID if they knew it were novelty. That is the point though, make it look as if it is a real ID, but have it altered in such a way that it makes it a novelty ID.

Zengrifter, it sounds like you have been using novelty IDs. Where do you get them, how are they altered, etc.
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Then, I think you have answered the question a bit. If it is "made to look like" an official (govt-issued) ID, then you are walking a fine line. State statutes are somewhat specific about that, and making minor alterations don't really exempt you from crossing that fine line. Dealing with attorneys way too often for my own personal taste in my line of work, I'd say that if you want to get close to that fine line with an institution like a casino, be careful. They employ sharks that will read that law the way they want to...and it doesn't matter if they are right.

Think about this: If making fake IDs to buy beer can get you arrested...
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
ChefJJ said:
Then, I think you have answered the question a bit. If it is "made to look like" an official (govt-issued) ID, then you are walking a fine line. State statutes are somewhat specific about that, and making minor alterations don't really exempt you from crossing that fine line. Dealing with attorneys way too often for my own personal taste in my line of work, I'd say that if you want to get close to that fine line with an institution like a casino, be careful. They employ sharks that will read that law the way they want to...and it doesn't matter if they are right.

Think about this: If making fake IDs to buy beer can get you arrested...
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Well, I was thinking novelty ID's may be like people getting 86'd from casinos. They always say dont come back or you'll be arrested, but nobody in the history of Nevada has ever been committed of a crime for returning to a casino after being kicked out. I was thinking the same thing would happen with novelty ID's, if they find out they threaten you, but nothing really happens. That's why I am asking people that use them regularily to see how it happens in reality. But I still want to know the law and possible consequences too.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
Scott,

I don't blame you for wanting to know the risks. I may be prying, are you talking about using the novelty ID for something like a comp card or coupons or something? If that's the case, there's probably some sort of "fine print" involved, and if it doesn't talk about requiring proper ID, then you may be better off. Of course, they put the fine print on stuff, assuming the average joe doesn't read it, and then they pull it on you--this may be such a case.

If there's no mention in the little stuff and you don't think you are "close" to replicating a govt ID, do your thing man. Just remember, people always love to pull the "see some ID" or "see another form of ID" on guys close to 21.
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
ChefJJ said:
Scott,

I don't blame you for wanting to know the risks. I may be prying, are you talking about using the novelty ID for something like a comp card or coupons or something? If that's the case, there's probably some sort of "fine print" involved, and if it doesn't talk about requiring proper ID, then you may be better off. Of course, they put the fine print on stuff, assuming the average joe doesn't read it, and then they pull it on you--this may be such a case.

If there's no mention in the little stuff and you don't think you are "close" to replicating a govt ID, do your thing man. Just remember, people always love to pull the "see some ID" or "see another form of ID" on guys close to 21.
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Yes, I want to use a novelty ID with fake information to get player's cards at the casino.

I suppose if they ever ask me to present ID while in the casino I can refuse.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
ScottH said:
Why would it be bad to be caught with a novelty ID if they are not illegal? You would have one legal ID, and one legal novelty ID. What could happen if I were to be caught with both of those?
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If a bunch of them were found by cops or airport security it would like like you are involved in some sort of fraud. You could, however, have a letter in your possession from your attorney explaining that you are a legitimate card-counter and inviting the authorities to call him. zg
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Either make your own or purchase overpriced product over the Web. As for te legalities, see I. Nelson Rose 'BJ And The Law'. zg



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Nevada Supreme Court Orders Casino to Pay Card Counter

Chen got his money because he did nothing illegal. Although Nevada Regulation 6A requires players to show I.D. when they buy in for more than $10,000 cash, there is nothing in the regulation making it a crime to show a phony I.D.
http://rose.casinocitytimes.com/article/nevada-supreme-court-orders-casino-to-pay-card-counter-967
 
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ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
Either make your own or purchase overpriced product over the Web. As for te legalities, see I. Nelson Rose 'BJ And The Law'. zg



--------
Nevada Supreme Court Orders Casino to Pay Card Counter

Chen got his money because he did nothing illegal. Although Nevada Regulation 6A requires players to show I.D. when they buy in for more than $10,000 cash, there is nothing in the regulation making it a crime to show a phony I.D.
http://rose.casinocitytimes.com/article/nevada-supreme-court-orders-casino-to-pay-card-counter-967
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Read my previous post...different state statues handle it differently. Since the casino industry is quite different in NV than any other state in the US, there are different ways of handling it. All I cautioned Scott was to look into it locally.

If you get pulled into a lawsuit and have to go through that BS, is it worth it?
 
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