Weekend Warriors II
- Thread starter jack.jackson
- Start date
Unless someone has something more to say about bet schedules, I see no reason not to start.gatherer said:
I think I'll use the schedule I originally came up with for KO:
Code:
[U]RC[/U] [U]Bet[/U]
<= 0 $10
+1 $15
+2 $30
>= +3 $50
Actually, they don’t seem to match up very well at all. The closest are the count frequencies, which I would think ought to be close, whatever the rules. If the CVCX info has more doubling, maybe that would account for the higher SD, and maybe for the difference in win rate. I don’t really know. (Where’s that “shrugging shoulders” smiley when you need it?)sagefr0g said:
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sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
need help with basic strategy lmao
ok team i started playing.
got a problem already lol.
i've only just ever played six deck and eight deck games for almost i guess three years now. i've played double deck once in a real joint and some practice rounds in cvbj before that once in the real joint double deck game.
so but now that i've started playing wwII i get this wake up call about basic strategy. i can do the basic strategy alright for double deck. thats not the problem. the problem is it's driving me crazy getting all these soft hands and some hard hands and some double down opportunities after splits that in the wwII game is not allowed. so the question is how does one play this double deck game a lot and not start losing your 6&8 deck do2das basic strategy 'skill' (sorry shad lmao). i mean i don't wanna be playing a bunch of wwII dd s17d10,11ndas hands and end up messing up my do2das basic strategy 'skill' level.
ok team i started playing.
got a problem already lol.
i've only just ever played six deck and eight deck games for almost i guess three years now. i've played double deck once in a real joint and some practice rounds in cvbj before that once in the real joint double deck game.
so but now that i've started playing wwII i get this wake up call about basic strategy. i can do the basic strategy alright for double deck. thats not the problem. the problem is it's driving me crazy getting all these soft hands and some hard hands and some double down opportunities after splits that in the wwII game is not allowed. so the question is how does one play this double deck game a lot and not start losing your 6&8 deck do2das basic strategy 'skill' (sorry shad lmao). i mean i don't wanna be playing a bunch of wwII dd s17d10,11ndas hands and end up messing up my do2das basic strategy 'skill' level.
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Im not sure if I remember or not, if I learned the changes in BS, for DAS and NDAS, before I learned the indexs for both. If you choose to learn BS moves, opposed to indexes. Preferabbly I keep the DAS on the Back burner and NDAS of the front burner, visioned in my mind.sagefr0g said:ok team i started playing.
got a problem already lol.
i've only just ever played six deck and eight deck games for almost i guess three years now. i've played double deck once in a real joint and some practice rounds in cvbj before that once in the real joint double deck game.
so but now that i've started playing wwII i get this wake up call about basic strategy. i can do the basic strategy alright for double deck. thats not the problem. the problem is it's driving me crazy getting all these soft hands and some hard hands and some double down opportunities after splits that in the wwII game is not allowed. so the question is how does one play this double deck game a lot and not start losing your 6&8 deck do2das basic strategy 'skill' (sorry shad lmao). i mean i don't wanna be playing a bunch of wwII dd s17d10,11ndas hands and end up messing up my do2das basic strategy 'skill' level.
For example: 22vs2 always looks to me like -7/+13
So for you it should look like S/H if you choose to learn BS differences, opposed to the indices. Or the one size fits all approach. Blah!
For the softhands, you will now stand on A7 and A8, which I believe are Double BS moves, for a few plays. Since you CANT Double, STAND. As for the others their pretty self explanatory. Hit until you get A7 or better, excluding 9,X&A(noteA7 vs A is a index play in S17 games)
Ps. just purchased CVCX
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sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
:whip:
kewl for the CVCX, let see ya duplicate my sim for hi/lo wwII !
thanks jj. what ever dude. lmao. i think what i'll just do is suck it up and fougetabout it. lol.jack said:Im not sure if I remember or not, if I learned the changes in BS, for DAS and NDAS, before I learned the indexs for both. If you choose to learn BS moves, opposed to indexes. Preferabbly I keep the DAS on the Back burner and NDAS of the front burner, visioned in my mind.
For example: 22vs2 always looks to me like -7/+13
So for you it should look like S/H if you choose to learn BS differences, opposed to the indices. Or the one size fits all approach. Blah!
For the softhands, you will now stand on A7 and A8, which I believe are Double BS moves, for a few plays. Since you CANT Double, STAND. As for the others their pretty self explanatory. Hit until you get A7 or better, excluding 9,X&A(noteA7 vs A is a index play in S17 games)
Ps. just purchased CVCX
kewl for the CVCX, let see ya duplicate my sim for hi/lo wwII !
How conclusive can a blackjack sim be? Maybe PowerSim and CVCX both give as good an answer as can be simmed.Canceler said:
A deck of cards relative to blackjack can have an enormous number of shuffle possibilities. Number of possible shuffles in the game of blackjack.
WW1 was played with 6 decks. The number of possible blackjack shuffles for 6 decks =
15556665977248970466761642104461627561695968526999269596558550444894970335672115258266479250320253722767145335343539410697389152470270170724113933586546200511905549741197226672460494178663440379599088237255909004822898324928866448390941084378606536318858201682937250000000000000000.
For 80% pen there are about 46 rounds per shuffle. A heads up trillion (1,000,000,000,000) round sim would be shuffled about 21,739,130,435 times so even a trillion round sim can touch on but a small fraction of the possiblities.
Simming a game such as craps, where there are only 36 possibilities, would yield results that are virtually identical to exact calculation, but I wonder about blackjack.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
that's interesting k_c. (just as an aside i guess you know the sim i was talking about with Canceler doesn't even represent the wwII game.)k_c said:
but anyway i can't follow your math but just taking what your saying with blind faith on the math part i think i still get your point.
to where i think your saying even say a trillion round sim (with out some internal mathematical engineering that deals with not covering all shuffles) can't represent all the possible shuffles?
No big deal.
We start off all playing the same game but then different counting systems are used.
In Hi-lo, we're using a sim assuming exact-card TC estimation. Great for Rainman, I guess lol.
Gatherer, who knows no indexes, is going to learn them while playing since the sim assumed it.
Canceller, maybe Aslan, is doing KO, or KO preferred, or TKO, with indexes he says he never would use in real life and has adjusted his spread to 10-50 just because that's the hi-lo spread. If he wants to do 15-75, why not.
Btw Canceller, I liked your sheet - I guess you converted the Powersim output to freg %'s since it just tells you number of hands played, and also converted the variance output to SD? If so, all good. I don't know KO and what the heck Psim was telling me about it in the first place. I just hope it's a good sim for your assumptions.
JJ has a CVDATA sim out there for which I have no idea what was assumed or when he spread to what. He can do more crazy stuff than I ever dreamed about - an L3 count with 200 indexes and side -counting god knows what. If he can make CVData do it, great. That's his game. He's, I think, starting this thread just becasue in the first one he discovered he had no way of knowing what his EV was in the first place.
It's all good becasue just creating a sim requires alot of effort in defining it.
But, hey, maybe we all have a real world game in mind we're curious about.
The Wise One has a DD game he recently started playing. Maybe JJ wants to use his crazy stuff. Maybe Gatherer wants to see how he does with no indexes as a start in some game nearby. Etc.
Maybe some would rather back-count or wong-out.
I don't even know where the Wise One gets his canned sims from.
I guess I'm just trying to say, play to any sim you want. If we end up with a sim for each person, cool. Maybe keep it all to a common team roll like $10 or $20K. Or not. ROR's over 13% slightly discouraged. If you can't, don't know how, maybe someone here can help post that for you. Just specify what you want to do.
I don't mind a team playing different games they want to at the skill level they have.
Eventually, you just may end up in real-life without a team so get prepared.
Even I give ZG credit for that aspect of the big picture.
Now that JJ has CVCX, which I thought he already had for some reason, he's got the real deal and I hereby appoint him God lol.
Still parallel on the org chart with Capt - just a different title lmao.
We start off all playing the same game but then different counting systems are used.
In Hi-lo, we're using a sim assuming exact-card TC estimation. Great for Rainman, I guess lol.
Gatherer, who knows no indexes, is going to learn them while playing since the sim assumed it.
Canceller, maybe Aslan, is doing KO, or KO preferred, or TKO, with indexes he says he never would use in real life and has adjusted his spread to 10-50 just because that's the hi-lo spread. If he wants to do 15-75, why not.
Btw Canceller, I liked your sheet - I guess you converted the Powersim output to freg %'s since it just tells you number of hands played, and also converted the variance output to SD? If so, all good. I don't know KO and what the heck Psim was telling me about it in the first place. I just hope it's a good sim for your assumptions.
JJ has a CVDATA sim out there for which I have no idea what was assumed or when he spread to what. He can do more crazy stuff than I ever dreamed about - an L3 count with 200 indexes and side -counting god knows what. If he can make CVData do it, great. That's his game. He's, I think, starting this thread just becasue in the first one he discovered he had no way of knowing what his EV was in the first place.
It's all good becasue just creating a sim requires alot of effort in defining it.
But, hey, maybe we all have a real world game in mind we're curious about.
The Wise One has a DD game he recently started playing. Maybe JJ wants to use his crazy stuff. Maybe Gatherer wants to see how he does with no indexes as a start in some game nearby. Etc.
Maybe some would rather back-count or wong-out.
I don't even know where the Wise One gets his canned sims from.
I guess I'm just trying to say, play to any sim you want. If we end up with a sim for each person, cool. Maybe keep it all to a common team roll like $10 or $20K. Or not. ROR's over 13% slightly discouraged. If you can't, don't know how, maybe someone here can help post that for you. Just specify what you want to do.
I don't mind a team playing different games they want to at the skill level they have.
Eventually, you just may end up in real-life without a team so get prepared.
Even I give ZG credit for that aspect of the big picture.
Now that JJ has CVCX, which I thought he already had for some reason, he's got the real deal and I hereby appoint him God lol.
Still parallel on the org chart with Capt - just a different title lmao.
I had a trial run last night ... and I must say with Hi-lo lite, Arnold's book was open for much of the experience. if I was in a real casino I'd be out quickly.
few things I learned:
1) I can much more easily keep the count in a DD game
2) I need to learn my index plays better
3) I'm not that good at TC calculations. If I get how it's done right if I have a TC of +4 and 1 deck remaining I should have a TC of +4... if it's 1.5 decks remaining then it would be a TC of +2 (after devision and dropping the decimal) I think I have CVBJ setup wrong for for it's TC calculation, because it never said it was +1 in the first half of the deck unless the count was over +5 I'll try to post my settings later on and maybe someone can tell me what is wrong with my calculations. If I understand TC calculating, for a DD game I'm never going to have a divisor bigger then 2 (the 2 decks that we have to play at the start of the shoe) and it should decrease in size every hand.
interesting side note: I once wanted to write a program in Excel that would compute all possible exact combinations of an 8 deck shoe. The program worked, but it would have taken 10 years to finish on my computer so I gave up on it.
on a side note: I have a certain Spanish 21 book delivered to me today.
few things I learned:
1) I can much more easily keep the count in a DD game
2) I need to learn my index plays better
3) I'm not that good at TC calculations. If I get how it's done right if I have a TC of +4 and 1 deck remaining I should have a TC of +4... if it's 1.5 decks remaining then it would be a TC of +2 (after devision and dropping the decimal) I think I have CVBJ setup wrong for for it's TC calculation, because it never said it was +1 in the first half of the deck unless the count was over +5 I'll try to post my settings later on and maybe someone can tell me what is wrong with my calculations. If I understand TC calculating, for a DD game I'm never going to have a divisor bigger then 2 (the 2 decks that we have to play at the start of the shoe) and it should decrease in size every hand.
interesting side note: I once wanted to write a program in Excel that would compute all possible exact combinations of an 8 deck shoe. The program worked, but it would have taken 10 years to finish on my computer so I gave up on it.
on a side note: I have a certain Spanish 21 book delivered to me today.