Venetian and others slash comps

zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Las Vegas Sands cuts bait: Comps

Off the hook: Company shifts focus on booking rooms
to paying customers, drawing ire of some guests, insiders

By Liz Benston / LV Sun
Monday, Feb. 28, 2011 | 2 a.m.

Attracted to the resort’s elegant surroundings, hushed atmosphere and perks such as free hotel rooms and entertainment discounts, California resident Joy Kane was a regular at the Palazzo, gambling thousands of dollars per trip as frequently as once a month.

That three-year relationship ended two days before her scheduled arrival for a birthday getaway when her casino host called and said the resort wouldn’t honor the comped three-night stay she had reserved two months earlier. Instead, she could pay the regular hotel rate of $750 for those nights, the host said.

“That’s fine if they want to stop comping rooms, but to cancel 48 hours before our arrival is shocking,” said Kane, who owns a renewable energy company in Palm Springs, Calif. “I’ll never stay there again even if they start comping me a room.”

Late last year, parent company Las Vegas Sands boldly scrapped the promotional offers casinos typically mail to gamblers year-round to entice them to stay at their properties. The loyalty club still entitles players to free or reduced prices for amenities based on the number of points they accumulate gambling. But add-on promotions such as free hotel stays, gambling tournaments for prizes and discounts at restaurants and shows — key parts of the industry’s marketing machine — were gutted.

Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson told Wall Street analysts about his strategy this month: Fill more rooms with cash-paying tourists and conventiongoers rather than comped gamblers.

MORE- http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/feb/28/sands-cuts-bait-comps/
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
WOW. That is absolutely ****ing moronic. A few months ago I overheard a host shoot down a guy for a room comp, and said they had him down betting "$200 a hand for about 4 hours".

Retards. The Venetian officially doesn't care about gamblers. They're a giant hotel that wants to grind out $150 a night from non-gamblers. The casino is an add-on.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
WOW. That is absolutely ****ing moronic. A few months ago I overheard a host shoot down a guy for a room comp, and said they had him down betting "$200 a hand for about 4 hours".

Retards. The Venetian officially doesn't care about gamblers. They're a giant hotel that wants to grind out $150 a night from non-gamblers. The casino is an add-on.
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When you consider the hundreds of thousands of convention and trade show people that come to Vegas each year and either don't gamble at all or have a $100 gambling budget, it just might turn out to be a brilliant move.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
When you consider the hundreds of thousands of convention and trade show people that come to Vegas each year and either don't gamble at all or have a $100 gambling budget, it just might turn out to be a brilliant move.
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It may. I'm not sure those guys were getting comped, though. Seems like they're being very inflexible, and should have opened different market channels. Comp some higher end gamblers, and sell the rest of the rooms. Believe me, if you got a comp at the Venetian, you were easily paying for it.


I'm also pissed because this was a golden goose for me. They had some very strong cash equivalent offers, and they're all dead now.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
It may. I'm not sure those guys were getting comped, though. Seems like they're being very inflexible, and should have opened different market channels. Comp some higher end gamblers, and sell the rest of the rooms. Believe me, if you got a comp at the Venetian, you were easily paying for it.


I'm also pissed because this was a golden goose for me. They had some very strong cash equivalent offers, and they're all dead now.
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For now, but consider what might happen if this bold move falls flat. In that case, Sands will be bending over backwards to get back in your good graces.
In the meantime, I imagine the Player Development Department is out job-hunting, client list in hands, so expect some new offers from places you don't frequent.
 
W

WRX

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
In that case, Sands will be bending over backwards to get back in your good graces.
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Sheldon Adelson can bend over forward and grab his ankles, as far as I'm concerned.
 
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blackriver

Well-Known Member
i think they feel like theyve been getting screwed by their old formula that said that gamblers would come back and lose more money if they had a free room. in this economy people prob say "i know weez broke, but these staycations are getting boring and we cant have any sex with the kids round all the time. why dont we use one of these free room offers and just chill by the pool for a week and just hop around the strip at night. i love me some beer pong at osheas and yard margarias at everywhere. if you dont gamble, i wont go shopping and we dont have to go to tao ever night like last year."

theyve prob been seeing that for a year or 2 now and decided these bums were never gonna be fish again anyway and the ones who do all play basic strategy now anyway. just 1 convention goers that play blackjack with a 50% disadvantage is better than 100 basic strat players that take up all their rooms and are comp savy. that instead of beign thrilled at any free things they become demanding and indignant when they dont get comped as well as theyd like to or heard someone else got, etc
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
blackriver said:
i think they feel like theyve been getting screwed by their old formula that said that gamblers would come back and lose more money if they had a free room. in this economy people prob say "i know weez broke, but these staycations are getting boring and we cant have any sex with the kids round all the time. why dont we use one of these free room offers and just chill by the pool for a week and just hop around the strip at night. i love me some beer pong at osheas and yard margarias at everywhere. if you dont gamble, i wont go shopping and we dont have to go to tao ever night like last year."

theyve prob been seeing that for a year or 2 now and decided these bums were never gonna be fish again anyway and the ones who do all play basic strategy now anyway. just 1 convention goers that play blackjack with a 50% disadvantage is better than 100 basic strat players that take up all their rooms and are comp savy. that instead of beign thrilled at any free things they become demanding and indignant when they dont get comped as well as theyd like to or heard someone else got, etc
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It's not harrah's. You probably had to be a decent green chip table player or quarter slot player to even get room offers at the Venetian.
 
Dyepaintball12

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
It's not harrah's. You probably had to be a decent green chip table player or quarter slot player to even get room offers at the Venetian.
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Yeah the players cards actually say "it is our policy to rate players betting minimum of $25 per hand".

And I just checked my Venetian offers... all gone. They were there after all the press was released so I thought I was all set but nope.

There goes $600 in free slot play offers :(
 
Tarzan

Tarzan

Banned
Reliance on room offers

Where this will hurt them is the players that are dependent upon room offers as an incentive to travel beyond their local areas. Competition in the gaming industry is popping up all over the place and more and more states are "seeing the light" and opening up casinos. Atlantic City is feeling the impact of casinos opening up in Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, etc. and taking business away. The only ace in the hole that AC has is to dole out some room offers and other incentives to get people to travel rather than playing at the local joints popping up all over that are closer to them.

This could end up being to their detriment in Vegas and the original post's scenario adds up to one seriously pissed off casino patron that might not be back there anytime soon, so imagine the total effect across the board! Competition is taking a piece of the pie, so the casinos are trying to compensate for it by giving less to their customers in the way of "perks" I suppose. This way they can still jack an extra few million to their corporate bonuses and such!hahaha

Maybe they think that an empty casino is okay as long as you have some hotel occupancy or that booking conventions is more profitable than any gaming? Those perks, comps and bonuses are what keep gamblers coming back for more abuse though so it's hard for me to understand their logic on this.

 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
The casino industry has been facing shrinking customer base for a number of years now. From both competition from newly opened venue and the harsh economy. This of course translates into lower revenues. There are two logical courses of action to take to try to combat these lower revenues. 1.) You can aggressively market and try to build up your customer base and take back customers from the competition by offering a better product than the competition, in this case better games, better odds, higher payouts on the machines. In a sense making smaller profits from a larger customer base. If successful, this would be a long term solution. Or 2.) you can bleed the remaining customers and make larger profits from the fewer customers. This of course is a very short term solution as the base will continue to shrink and you will need even more profits from an even smaller base in the future. The bean counters choose #2 every time. This means lower odds, and payouts. H17 blackjack. 6-5 blackjack. Video poker that went from full pay 9/6, to 8/6 to 8/5 to 7/5. Slot machines that pay out at lower rate. What's next? Roulette with triple 000? Blackjack paying even money? More carnival games? I guess they think the customers don't know the difference, but they are wrong. The people don't even have to understand the math behind these higher house advantages. Grandma will know that she used to go to the casinos for a couple days every month and take $300 to play slots, and she would win 4 or 5 times a year (out of 12). Now they she almost never wins. Grandma will stop going. I am just waiting for some exec, who understands about gaming and not short term fixes to try the other way. :eek:

A place like AC, I just don't get. Gaming is all they have. They aren't a tourist destination. They have limited conventions. They just continue to drive away customers. Now Vegas, thinks they can make up for gaming losses with tourism and conventions. Don't they get that Vegas is gaming! Without gaming, people and conventions wouldn't be coming to the desert very long!
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Rooms are probably the cheapest thing to comp when the hotel isn't full, and a smart hotel is going to know when they are going to fill and when they won't.

At the same time, corporate travel is gradually going out of style as budgets tighten and more gets done online. The Venetian can't possibly have as many conventioneers now as they did when they opened. Sounds like just more poor management from the morons who run casinos and hotels.
 
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Shoofly

Well-Known Member
kewljason said:
The casino industry has been facing shrinking customer base for a number of years now. From both competition from newly opened venue and the harsh economy. This of course translates into lower revenues. There are two logical courses of action to take to try to combat these lower revenues. 1.) You can aggressively market and try to build up your customer base and take back customers from the competition by offering a better product than the competition, in this case better games, better odds, higher payouts on the machines. In a sense making smaller profits from a larger customer base. If successful, this would be a long term solution. Or 2.) you can bleed the remaining customers and make larger profits from the fewer customers. This of course is a very short term solution as the base will continue to shrink and you will need even more profits from an even smaller base in the future. The bean counters choose #2 every time. This means lower odds, and payouts. H17 blackjack. 6-5 blackjack. Video poker that went from full pay 9/6, to 8/6 to 8/5 to 7/5. Slot machines that pay out at lower rate. What's next? Roulette with triple 000? Blackjack paying even money? More carnival games? I guess they think the customers don't know the difference, but they are wrong. The people don't even have to understand the math behind these higher house advantages. Grandma will know that she used to go to the casinos for a couple days every month and take $300 to play slots, and she would win 4 or 5 times a year (out of 12). Now they she almost never wins. Grandma will stop going. I am just waiting for some exec, who understands about gaming and not short term fixes to try the other way. :eek:

A place like AC, I just don't get. Gaming is all they have. They aren't a tourist destination. They have limited conventions. They just continue to drive away customers. Now Vegas, thinks they can make up for gaming losses with tourism and conventions. Don't they get that Vegas is gaming! Without gaming, people and conventions wouldn't be coming to the desert very long!
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Before I retired, I was in the transportation industry. Trucking companies would add sales people when the economy was good and their trailers were full. When the economy eased and they needed freight, they would cut their sales force. I think the same morons are now running casinos.
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
noticable change

There was a big slash to say the least. I stayed there a few times in the past two years and was surprised not to get a free room offer after the last time.The rates are not reduced either for a players club card but I haven't inquired about them to a host. The tables are a little high for my br anyways so they really don't get much action on the tables from me. It takes a little while for a casino to return to comping their players properly in this economy. They do have some great accomidations at the Pallazo which are the same as the Venetian.
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
Marketing

AutoMonkey brought up an excellent point that rooms being comped; even to low/mid rollers, is better then empty rooms.

Thunder brought up another excellent point that room offers are important to bring them in vs local gambling.

It's shocking that they would cancel what was promised or already sent. This will have the effect as mentioned of angering existing clients.

A smart competitor could quickly advertise, we will honor Venetian promos that they refuse and would probably steal a lot of customers, permanately.

Why not just cut comps over time? Many might not evern notice, excluding rooms.

Have more entries in tournaments, drawings while slowly lowering prizes is an example. Only pay the top 10 vs top 20 while keeping the same top prizes. Many won't notice the difference.

Also, slowly lowering food/cash comps and downgrading rooms.

Make the meat cuts a little smaller in the steak house vs killing food comps. Many won't notice the difference.

Next they will turn off the hot water and climate control.

Starts to slant the playing rated vs not considerations.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Venetian is going after a different market. They decided not to take a half step, but to cut ies with all but their best players. There has been a Four Seasons operating in Mandalay Bay for several years, and I believe they do not comp those rooms, but they still fill them on a regular basis.
V/P management thinks they can raise their bottom line by dealing with conventioneers and the upper crust traveler.
Time will tell.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
Venetian is going after a different market. They decided not to take a half step, but to cut ies with all but their best players. There has been a Four Seasons operating in Mandalay Bay for several years, and I believe they do not comp those rooms, but they still fill them on a regular basis.
V/P management thinks they can raise their bottom line by dealing with conventioneers and the upper crust traveler.
Time will tell.
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If we were talking about a different market, maybe it would be viable. But this is Vegas, hotel rooms outnumber people by about 2:1.
 
Solo player

Solo player

Well-Known Member
Venetian

shadroch said:
Venetian is going after a different market. They decided not to take a half step, but to cut ies with all but their best players. There has been a Four Seasons operating in Mandalay Bay for several years, and I believe they do not comp those rooms, but they still fill them on a regular basis.
V/P management thinks they can raise their bottom line by dealing with conventioneers and the upper crust traveler.
Time will tell.
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Venetian is definitely after the convetioneers. Maybe thats because of a guaranteed revenue stream coming in from rooms and food they will buy. I'm not sure. I would think that most conventioneers don't spend a lot on gaming,let alone be able to tell good pay scales on machines or good blackjack games. So what little they spend on gaming fits in fine with the poor games they do offer.

But for anyone even halfway serious about blackjack. Unless you found a dealer thats flashing cards there is no reason to play such junk games.
 
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