My 3-day Ban: An Open Letter

My bad!

I was not having a good day when I found a certain post (below) on another forum. The Forum in question, Fight Club, is not a forum where knowledge is shared, but rather where insults and accusations and testosterone are despensed for no good reason.

This unweildly so-called Fight Club is a place where outrageous claims and attacks are bantered about and respondents are often edited or even banned permanently without "due-cause", even while the "sanctioned" attackers go on posting outrageous nonense without abatement.

For example, recently a BJF Admin posted that the Ultimate BJ Tour UBT "went bust and lost everything" though when I did a Google for UBT news I found recent news stories and nothing to confirm this 'inside info'. Maybe its true, I don't know.

I do know that in my own case I was banned without notice or explanation at Fight Club even while I continued to be slandered and spuriously OUTED.

And its the outing of LVCHM, my terrible mistake on Thursday, that led to Ken rightly banning me. Actually, my first inclination was to send Ken the subject post and say, "LOOK AT HOW RIDICULOUS THIS IS!!" My second impulse was to out the poster at Fight Club as well.

I didn't follow my first impulse, to send the post below to Ken because I figured he'd just respond with his Buddha-like demeanor that cooler heads should prevail.

And frankly, the crew in question has outed moi so many times that I basically lost my wits, temporarily at least. Never mind that I occaissionally out myself, I still don't like it when others presume to do it.

So what I did was wrong and I am thankful that Ken deleted the offending post before it made matters worse with these so-called 'pros' who have been dropping by lately to reveal our lack of knowledge and expose the charlatans (like me).

In any event, as allowed and encouraged by the BJINFO rules and guidelines, I am re-posting the subject Fight Club post with the offending violation deleted (XXXXX). I think that the subject post is ourageous enough to merit some discussion and analysis, and perhaps lend further insight into the shenanigans of the culprits.

Respectfully, zg

zengrifter said:

Here's how the racket works. Zengrifter, who makes his living pulling off small cons on newbie card counters for $5-10k a crack, depends on the gambling Web sites to find new marks to rob.
.
The gambling product sellers, a lesser order of con man, depend on the gambling Web sites to sell their overpriced crap.
.
Zengrifter helps the product sellers by relentlessly posting (under his own and other handles) how wonderful their crap is and putting up links to it.
.
The product sellers return the favor by allowing Zengrifter to pose as an expert on their boards and by defending him when the people who know his record warn new players that he's a thief.
.
The product sellers can't get a real pro to tell new players that they need $600 worth of crap, and it certainly wouldn't do to have their big promoter revealed to be the con man that he is.
.
Better to help a con man rip off people so that everyone can SELL SELL SELL.
.
(And by the way, Whataburger [QFIT], not every honest, intelligent poster on the Internet is me.)
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[/INDENT]

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Wow! That's quite a conspiracy theory. It almost belongs in the ZenZone!

BTW, I believe LVHCM has already "outed" himself on this board in an earlier post. A quick search will uncover some info he mentioned about a memorable experience back in 2002. If he didn't want his identity know then he could have edited or deleted that message. It looks like the cat is out of the bag and he doesn't mind.

-Sonny-

Sonny said:

Wow! That's quite a conspiracy theory. It almost belongs in the ZenZone!

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Well, I'm the one who beleives in conspiracies!

Sonny said:

BTW, I believe LVHCM has already "outed" himself on this board in an earlier post. A quick search will uncover some info he mentioned about a memorable experience back in 2002. If he didn't want his identity know then he could have edited or deleted that message. It looks like the cat is out of the bag and he doesn't mind.

Click to expand...

I beleive Sonny is correct - LQQK:

lvhcm said:

In October 2002 I beat the Cortez for 45k in a week, got backroomed, sued, and settled for another mid five figures. Thanks Wayne!

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So Ken, this being the case, I think the next time I earn a 3-day ban, I should be given credit for time served! Yes? zg

zengrifter said:

Well, I'm the one who beleives in conspiracies!

I beleive Sonny is correct - LQQK:

So Ken, this being the case, I think the next time I earn a 3-day ban, I should be given credit for time served! Yes? zg

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In that case you'll have earned 14 mos.+3 days credit.:laugh:

zengrifter said:

So Ken, this being the case, I think the next time I earn a 3-day ban, I should be given credit for time served! Yes? zg

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a quick google search confirms the el cortez story...

Mimosine said:

a quick google search confirms the el cortez story...

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There's also an interview with him on Arnold Snyder's site.

-Sonny-

The truth of it is

the Fight Club is such a waste. I find it hard to believe Arnold Snyder associates himself with Stalker,et al. I'm now denied access to the website because last week I sent a short note to Arnold Snyder telling him I thought he should s---can the whole site and start over again(without Stalker!)
I'm surprised he's so into censorship.

Mimosine said:

a quick google search confirms the el cortez story...

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Oh crap, that was him?!

Anyway, zg, I hope you learned two valuable lessons from this:

1) Outing other players still isn't cool. Ever.
2) Sometimes it's better to take your toys and go home rather than play in a sandbox that's no good for you.

zengrifter said:

I beleive Sonny is correct - LQQK:

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Why do you always type the work look with two capital Q's? Is there any special meaning to it or do you just do it for fun?

ScottH said:

Why do you always type the work look with two capital Q's? Is there any special meaning to it or do you just do it for fun?

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It LQQKS like two eyes gawking! zg

rogue1 said:

the Fight Club is such a waste. I find it hard to believe Arnold Snyder associates himself with Stalker,et al. I'm now denied access to the website because last week I sent a short note to Arnold Snyder telling him I thought he should s---can the whole site and start over again(without Stalker!)
I'm surprised he's so into censorship.

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I'm just curious, what's your problem with Stalker?

EasyRhino said:

2) Sometimes it's better to take your toys and go home rather than play in a sandbox that's no good for you.

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Yup. It only takes one thing to turn a sand box into a littler box, and it doesn't have to be from a cat.

-Sonny-

moo321 said:

I'm just curious, what's your problem with Stalker?

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None. I'm hoping to see him in Vegas so he can keep his word and hurt me. zg the AG (advantage-grifter)

yo moo

you asked exactly the same question on the other website-the answer is the same too.

rogue1 said:

you asked exactly the same question on the other website-the answer is the same too.

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My answer above wasn't enough? I honestly don't have a problem with him, except when he goes on the attack, meritless, extreme outing of me, and withholds my password from the Fight Club he moderates while he continue to post smack about me.

Little known:
When his partner was sitting in the slammer for a play gone bad in Y2K he didn't hesitate to call me (THE NEOPHYTE) for advice, and that advice led to a multi-hundred-thousand-dollar settlement for the partner.

But now I'm a "clueless neophyte-charlatan who makes a living ripping off newbies and hawking worthless books and software"!

"Huh, I tell ya, I get no respect! Its not easy being me!" zg

.........ZEN DANGERFIELD..................

Sonny said:

There's also an interview with him on Arnold Snyder's site.

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MY 6000th POST @ BJINFO! - I don't know if this is the same guy you are referring to, but here's a great interview
(not as good as the ZG Interview, of course). Talks about the education of a holecarder, etc. zg

--------------
INTERVIEW WITH THE LEGENDARY HOLE-CARD PLAYER 'RC'

By RWM
(From Blackjack Forum Vol. XXIII #1, Spring 2003)
© 2003 Blackjack Forum

Not all professional blackjack players count cards. There is a very small group of professional gamblers using a technique with a much higher advantage. These players are known as "hole carders." If a blackjack player knows the dealer’s hole card his edge with perfect play is 13.06% according to Beyond Counting, by James Grosjean. Even with cover plays to mask what they do, the edge can be close to 10%. 10%! Card counters will fly off to Third World countries in the midst of a civil war to play a game with a 2% edge. Why isn’t everyone playing these games? The answer is: It ain’t easy.

For every one hour spent on the table playing, the hole-card player may spend ten hours scouting. He spends hours and hours walking in and out of casinos, often in hundred-degree heat, checking dealers for the slightest leak. Most players, even if shown a dealer who is flashing, would not be able to spot the hole card anyway. Hole carders spend hundreds of hours training their eyes to see something that flashes by in a fraction of a second, often cast in shadow.

...more - http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/interviewRC.htm

Class act, Zg!

zengrifter said:

My bad!

I was not having a good day when I found a certain post (below) on another forum. The Forum in question, [B
And its the outing of LVCHM, my terrible mistake on Thursday, that led to Ken rightly banning me. Actually, my first inclination was to send Ken the subject post and say, "LOOK AT HOW RIDICULOUS THIS IS!!" My second impulse was to out the poster at Fight Club as well.

I didn't follow my first impulse, to send the post below to Ken because I figured he'd just respond with his Buddha-like demeanor that cooler heads should prevail.

So what I did was wrong and I am thankful that Ken deleted the offending post before it made matters worse with these so-called 'pros' who have been dropping by lately to reveal our lack of knowledge and expose the charlatans (like me).
Respectfully, zg

Having followed this rather obnoxious "circus" for the past weeks and the resulting 3 day rip from Ken, I must say that I wasn't too surprised by the inevitible outcome. What did surprise me, however, was your sincere and suplient apology for abusing the Forum guidelines. Despite my writhing at some of your whacky, far out posts and occasional curt and rude comments to the newbees on the site, I must take this opportunity, in open forum, to applaud your taking responsibility for your actions. God knows it has become a rare phenomenon in this day and age to exibit personal responsibility for one's actions, not to mention claiming victimization as a diversion of culpability. I have made sure both of my kids have read your open letter.
The irony in all this is, although this may be a blackjack forum, that this particular thread had perhaps provided more education and insight than any of you other posts.

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bj bob said:

I must take this opportunity, in open forum, to applaud your taking responsibility for your actions....not to mention claiming victimization as a diversion of culpability.

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I'm learning this so I can run for office.

I'd like to see more 'analysis' of that subject post's outrageous claims. zg

Ps - Always make sure that [/quote] is at the end of the previous post!

zengrifter said:

-----------------
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Posted at Fight Club - Hosted by Stalker (aka XXXXXX)
-----------------
Subject : What Whataburger [QFIT] will do for a link
posted by Radar_O'Reilly on 05-16-2007 17:52
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/w-agora/view.php?site=bjf&bn=bjf_fightclub&key=1179359543

Here's how the racket works. Zengrifter, who makes his living pulling off small cons on newbie card counters for $5-10k a crack, depends on the gambling Web sites to find new marks to rob.
.
The gambling product sellers, a lesser order of con man, depend on the gambling Web sites to sell their overpriced crap.
.
Zengrifter helps the product sellers by relentlessly posting (under his own and other handles) how wonderful their crap is and putting up links to it.
.
The product sellers return the favor by allowing Zengrifter to pose as an expert on their boards and by defending him when the people who know his record warn new players that he's a thief.
.
The product sellers can't get a real pro to tell new players that they need $600 worth of crap, and it certainly wouldn't do to have their big promoter revealed to be the con man that he is.
.
Better to help a con man rip off people so that everyone can SELL SELL SELL.
.
(And by the way, Whataburger [QFIT], not every honest, intelligent poster on the Internet is me.)
-----------------------
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ​

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Here is the only endorsement I've given in FIVE YEARS (to the best of my recollection) -
The Big Book of Blackjack by Arnold Snyder

Where's Robert Anton wilson when you need him to debunk a conspiracy theory?

bj bob said:

In that case you'll have earned 14 mos.+3 days credit.:laugh:

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Robert Anton Wilson would have given this conspiracy thorough reseach to dbunk it any every other conspiracy at the same time. Then let the whole world off for good behavior and time served.