how to start your counting career

This is how i have started my counting in the casinos over the last couple days which i would not recomend aiming for the same results.

Well so far i have had 2 sessions for 4 hours total with only about 2.5-3 actually at a table. so it hasn't been much but since i can't gloat about my winnings which are non existent i shall tell my experiences losing which are much more exciting then winning every hand. So far i have been playing in shoes where the count has been good pretty much every time, half the time seems to be over a true count of +3 going up to +7 so things are good in that department. im playing with a half spread right now just for starters of $10-$80 decent 6 deck game with some wonging. after all of this I'm down $665. Seems like every time i double down with $40 or more vs the dealers 5 or 6 he pulls a 21, actually it has been every time. or the wonderful i get my nice 20 and experience a fun push with every stiff hand you could possible handle. But i have had 3 good results from hands. First one an insurance bet which the dealer pulled a blackjack, a max bet double down A6v4 ( my only double down win with a decent bet out more then $25) and another nice insurance bet where the dealer has his blackjack. So far i have won every won of my insurance bet if we try to find a positive.

I'm also still in the one standard deviation of negativness though, right?

Everyone i know is saying ohh your theory isn't working. i just say. isn't it? its working perfectly just not to my favor.:laugh:

luckily i have a larger bankroll and prepared for this knowing there is something like a 58% chance of losing $1000 just as an example estimate. So despite my very little play i can tell any new player getting into counting they better have good bankroll management and expect to lose at some point. because i assume a fair number of new players have completely overbet their bankroll and lost it right away. this is my little bit of advice that should probably be taken into consideration. Probably a better story to read for a new player then i turned my $1000 into like $30 000 in 2 weeks!!!

now i get to go brag about my losses to everyone so when or "if" i ever win my wins will look huge in contrast! eh?

I really like this post a lot. So much truth, and humor, and good attitude.

If the post was a question, "how to start your counting career?" then I'd recommend an easier way to build up a bankroll, like online bonus whoring, or a job. And then I'd recommend deciding to do something else with that money than count cards.

If the post was a demonstration, "how to start your counting career:", then I'd say you've got a pretty accurate summary!

EasyRhino said:

If the post was a question, "how to start your counting career?" then I'd recommend an easier way to build up a bankroll, like online bonus whoring, or a job. And then I'd recommend deciding to do something else with that money than count cards.

If the post was a demonstration, "how to start your counting career:", then I'd say you've got a pretty accurate summary!

Click to expand...

yea its more of a demonstration, card counting for me is just something i found interesting to get into. although i wouldn't mind hearing a little more about bonus whoring since from reading your other post you seem to have done quite well at it and a little extra money never hurt.

EasyRhino said:

If the post was a question, "how to start your counting career?" then I'd recommend an easier way to build up a bankroll, like online bonus whoring, or a job. And then I'd recommend deciding to do something else with that money than count cards.

If the post was a demonstration, "how to start your counting career:", then I'd say you've got a pretty accurate summary!

Click to expand...

Rhino, I was under the impression that online bonus whoring was dead. Everything has been taken away from what I can tell. They no longer count blackjack as part of the wagering requirement (or if they do, the wagering requirement is too high), and the other games have too low of an EV. Besides, most casinos don't allow US players anymore. So, what site do you know about that I don't?

la_dee_daa said:

i have been playing in shoes where the count has been good pretty much every time, half the time seems to be over a true count of +3 going up to +7 so things are good in that department. im playing with a half spread right now just for starters of $10-$80 decent 6 deck game with some wonging. after all of this I'm down $665.

I'm also still in the one standard deviation of negativness though, right?

Click to expand...

If you don't know I guess we don't lol.

Half the time over TC+3?

Some wonging? What's that mean? Was most play-all?

What was your specific plan going in? What is the roll you were sizing your bets to?

You don't have to answer. The main question is whether your loss is perfectly reasoonable or perhaps maybe represents more "bad luck" than you think perhaps indicating a re-thinking of your overall plan just to be sure.

Good luck - be careful. I know you were probably mostly just having fun anyway.

la dee daa what card counting method did you use? im new into card counting and wanted some advice on which method is best and what not. thanks for your time

if youv only played 8 hours with bets in the ballpark of 50 on average im guessing youv probibly experienced close to the worst of your negetive swing for a period of time that small, so rest assured your losses may seep further down, but if you can stomache them happening at that rate then your doing good, its kinda hard to tell by not knowing how you bet but i think your losses were around and just below the 2 stdv range

Gambit21 said:

la dee daa what card counting method did you use? im new into card counting and wanted some advice on which method is best and what not. thanks for your time

Click to expand...

im useing just hi/lo with illustrious 18 and fab 4 plus what ever other diviations i happen to remember. I just used that because it was the first one i knew about and i found enough information on the internet to. Iv heard KO is a good method to if you don't feel like doing true count conversions but i didn't know about KO till i found this board and had already practiced basic hi-lo. I found the true count conversion with deck estimation fairly easy because i practiced playing with 6 decks with a friend so I got use to estimating how many decks were left and when i went into the casino it was easy. I had to wait till i was legal gambling age before i could start so i had lots of time to practice and wasn't rushed into playing when i wasn't ready. I practiced till i could easily carry on a conversation at the table and have my count pretty much right on each time with say my tv on in the background. And of course know BS perfectly

So now when playing if people want to talk to me i get into talking about how i should of not hit my 14 v 10 which let the dealer get a A instead of my 5 and how this affects the "flow" of the cards, since this is all they care about since when i come to the table everyone starts losing:laugh:.

these are my general experiences so far.

Kasi said:

If you don't know I guess we don't lol.

Half the time over TC+3?

Some wonging? What's that mean? Was most play-all?

What was your specific plan going in? What is the roll you were sizing your bets to?

You don't have to answer. The main question is whether your loss is perfectly reasoonable or perhaps maybe represents more "bad luck" than you think perhaps indicating a re-thinking of your overall plan just to be sure.

Good luck - be careful. I know you were probably mostly just having fun anyway.

Click to expand...

yea iv been seeing alot of high counts alot of the time when the last 2 decks are being delt out the count is staying at around 10 or so for a running count.

By some wonging it depends on how full all the tables are and if im playing with others. If the casino is really full sometimes i can't find a free table for half and hour. I mostly tend to back count the first deck to see if its a positive count. If i continue into the second shoe at the table i will sometimes play the first few hands and if the count dips negative to much for my likeing i leave and try to find a new table. If the casino is not very full and the count goes negative or its the start of a new shoe il just sit out fiddle with my chips playing with my phone saying i just need a little break or something. Better yet if i go with a friend i just take my seat and just only play positive counts watching his hands giving some BS advice saying this is what i would do. I have mostly played all since i have experienced nice positive counts but i will only play through a few negative counts if i know i won't find a table to play at. In the busy times there are spots open but i don't really want to play at full tables. So in the end my some wonging is determined by how full the tables are because i play with time restrictions where my free time where i can go to the casino comes from like 1:30-3.

my specific plan is bankroll is not exact but is around $8000 can be more or less if i want. My first inital plan was to bet 10- 2 hands of 75. But since i am just starting out i wanted to take a half spread just to get into the swing of things playing from 10- 2x 40 or like one $80 bet. Or if i have the oportunity to wong alot i just green chip 25-2x50.

I have been pretty "unlucky" as the whole tables seems to lose everything everytime i join in. It usually comes down i have a fairly positive count to the end of the last 2 decks left being up say 100 or 200 then i have a count of like 15 running to 10 running to the last hand and just lose every one of the hands every time. So after having my a $50 bet doubled down vs dealers 6 and the dealer pulls the 21 i have lost the little bit i was up plus a little more.
I really havent played that much so i was knowing this could easily happen in this type of short run.

i have only gone 3 times first time 1.5 hrs second time 2 hrs third time was 3 short sessions of 5 or 6 shoes. after this i am now down $845.

also my last session i only have $800 in my pocket so i just played positive counts betting $25-$60 with a few friends. although i did play one last shoe play all just for fun because i had some time to kill and i was up $70 at the end of it, my first time ending a shoe with a more chips then i bought in for.

Also when starting counting and all you experience is losing right away its kinda hard to force yourself to put out $150. If i had i probably would have lost twice as much so its like i knew i was going to lose hand have minimized my losses eh? other then not playing the bet spread i was planning to which is the longer run i assume would hurt me but so far has slowed my losses down.

i really havent played that much and it is mainly fun but i would like to maybe end up a few bucks ahead rather then bragging about my losses to my friends lol.

la dee da i'm just wonder how sure you are of your counts that your comming up with. just seems like your comming across a lot of positve ones. beginner luck maybe lol. but anyway i think the more you'll play you wont see so many juicy shoes where you'll be betting so much. wont be the potential to win as much money but then the potential to lose as much wont be there either.
oh well your post was interesiting. thanks for the story.

sagefr0g said:

la dee da i'm just wonder how sure you are of your counts that your comming up with. just seems like your comming across a lot of positve ones. beginner luck maybe lol. but anyway i think the more you'll play you wont see so many juicy shoes where you'll be betting so much. wont be the potential to win as much money but then the potential to lose as much wont be there either.
oh well your post was interesiting. thanks for the story.

Click to expand...

I know my counting is on because i have practiced though hundreds of shoes at home and know that i shouldn't be getting positive counts so often. So im going to have to go with beginners luck i bet everyone wishes they could start out like me :grin:

la_dee_daa said:

I know my counting is on because i have practiced though hundreds of shoes at home and know that i shouldn't be getting positive counts so often. So im going to have to go with beginners luck i bet everyone wishes they could start out like me :grin:

Click to expand...

sounds good to me. any chance you can play a lower limit table (nickle table)? i guess you wong in pretty much. i think it is that fluctuation may be a bit steeper for more wonging in. to where you could be getting those great counts putting the money out there and then suffering the negative positive fluctuation. like where you lost those double downs with a fair sized bet out. but great to have the opportunity to double down with those bets.
perhaps you might slow things down a bit like maybe having a lower max bet and less aggressive spread for when you wong in. and maybe a bit higher max bet and more agressive ramp for when you sit and play in the cases where you don't wong out. nothing radical but you might have some wiggle room there. just a thought. don't want to lead you astray. i sure don't know much or even know if that's a good idea or not. just would like to see you have a chance to get lucky and get ahead so as then you'd have the advantage of the old saw ' if they don't get you early on they might never get you' sort of thing.

sagefr0g said:

sounds good to me. any chance you can play a lower limit table (nickle table)? i guess you wong in pretty much. i think it is that fluctuation may be a bit steeper for more wonging in. to where you could be getting those great counts putting the money out there and then suffering the negative positive fluctuation. like where you lost those double downs with a fair sized bet out. but great to have the opportunity to double down with those bets.
perhaps you might slow things down a bit like maybe having a lower max bet and less aggressive spread for when you wong in. and maybe a bit higher max bet and more agressive ramp for when you sit and play in the cases where you don't wong out. nothing radical but you might have some wiggle room there. just a thought. don't want to lead you astray. i sure don't know much or even know if that's a good idea or not. just would like to see you have a chance to get lucky and get ahead so as then you'd have the advantage of the old saw ' if they don't get you early on they might never get you' sort of thing.

Click to expand...

yea they have like 2 nickel tables only at peek periods so its not really practical to play them because there would be to many people and i would get so few hands in and be forced into playing though negative counts. thats what i have been doing when wonging is playing smaller bets. and have been playing the half spread which if i can't reduce anymore unless i start flat betting lol. although since every shoe seems to be positive i play so i haven't needed a larger spread.

il be back next week and who knows i might win, oh but i forgot i haven't been listening to the flow of the cards thats why i must be losing i just keep taking the dealers damn bust card:laugh: better start staying on those hard 8s so i don't steal the 10 that WILL COME UP.

went to the casino again after a couple weeks of being sick and its still going the same ol same ol. maybe played for 1 hr if that and lost $673.50. From 4 shoes.. I did play all just because my friend was playing to. true count got to about +3 so nice 2 bets of $25 a round which is about what i should be. ended up losing about 6-7 strait hands till the count dropped again. through the 4 shoes i played my highest bet i won was $15, no wait it was a double down on min bet:laugh: Still everone else does lose to when im at the table... stay away from me,,, maybe il get a rep at the casino soon,,, no one will want to join me on the talbe

maybe i should do a little more backcounting

this is hows its done :grin:

DOWN $1518 6-7 hrs of play.....

all you knew people who watched 21 and think u win every time WARNING!!!

so know what .. la dee daa...

la_dee_daa said:

This is how i have started my counting in the casinos over the last couple days which i would not recomend aiming for the same results.

Well so far i have had 2 sessions for 4 hours total with only about 2.5-3 actually at a table. so it hasn't been much but since i can't gloat about my winnings which are non existent i shall tell my experiences losing which are much more exciting then winning every hand. So far i have been playing in shoes where the count has been good pretty much every time, half the time seems to be over a true count of +3 going up to +7 so things are good in that department. im playing with a half spread right now just for starters of $10-$80 decent 6 deck game with some wonging. after all of this I'm down $665. Seems like every time i double down with $40 or more vs the dealers 5 or 6 he pulls a 21, actually it has been every time. or the wonderful i get my nice 20 and experience a fun push with every stiff hand you could possible handle. But i have had 3 good results from hands. First one an insurance bet which the dealer pulled a blackjack, a max bet double down A6v4 ( my only double down win with a decent bet out more then $25) and another nice insurance bet where the dealer has his blackjack. So far i have won every won of my insurance bet if we try to find a positive.

I'm also still in the one standard deviation of negativness though, right?

Everyone i know is saying ohh your theory isn't working. i just say. isn't it? its working perfectly just not to my favor.:laugh:

luckily i have a larger bankroll and prepared for this knowing there is something like a 58% chance of losing $1000 just as an example estimate. So despite my very little play i can tell any new player getting into counting they better have good bankroll management and expect to lose at some point. because i assume a fair number of new players have completely overbet their bankroll and lost it right away. this is my little bit of advice that should probably be taken into consideration. Probably a better story to read for a new player then i turned my $1000 into like $30 000 in 2 weeks!!!

now i get to go brag about my losses to everyone so when or "if" i ever win my wins will look huge in contrast! eh?

Click to expand...

Kudos! zg

la_dee_daa said:

so know what .. la dee daa...

Click to expand...

Now you suspend play until the next BR replenishment and then pick up right where you left off...
OR you play for bust with what you still have left and consider you can lose. Wonging. zg

la_dee_daa said:

maybe i should do a little more backcounting

Click to expand...

If your max bet is 2x$25 (or about $40 singlehanded), then you DEFINITELY need to spend more time backcounting shoes, unless your min bet is $3 or less.

EasyRhino said:

If your max bet is 2x$25 (or about $40 singlehanded), then you DEFINITELY need to spend more time backcounting shoes, unless your min bet is $3 or less.

Click to expand...

no its just the bet i use once it goes positive like +3 ish iv been playing a 1-10 spread.. its like for a six deck shoe so it should be 4 units at +3 so instead i just play 5 units on 2 hands.. thats all. its just the highest count i saw today which wiped me out!!! lol. the count went to +3 and i lost every hand till it dropped back down near the end of the shoe $500 later. my min bet is $10 just because its impossible to get a spot at a $5 table so i play the $10 tables like the high roller i am:cool2:

Don't worry about my plan strategy for APing, i know what i'm supose to do, i just have been getting unlucky or if you prefer to call it bad variance, its all the same:whip:

la_dee_daa said:

at +3 so instead i just play 5 units on 2 hands

Click to expand...

Where do you hit a max bet? You probably should be hitting that 10x bet by a TC of no more than +5. As you've seen, getting counts above that are very very rare.

(This would also require a financial gut check on your part)

Play all with a <10x spread on a shoe game only results in an edge of like 0.5%. That's about the same as the disadvantage with strict BS. But it's such a small advantage that it would take a gillion billion hands before it comes evident. Might as well be a coin flip.

When I was starting out I also made the mistake of play-all on too weak of a game with too small of a spread. I was lucky enough to survive long enough to start backcounting more, and eventually afforcing better games with bigger spreads.