1 or 2 hands when playing Heads-Up in +TC games

[Renzey]

In fact, just keeping the dealer from having an equal chance for getting those blackjacks by playing two hands is a decided advantage, is it not?

No -- it's not! Keep the big picture in mind. When you play one hand, the dealer gets half of the total blackjacks and beats your one hand for each of them. When you play two hands, the dealer gets only one-third of the total blackjacks, but beats two of your hands each time.

Money Distribution for 6 total Blackjacks:
Playing one hand, she gets 3 and you get 3. You net 1.5 bets of $1000 each ($1500).
Playing two hands, she gets 2 and you get 4. You net 2 bets of $730 each ($1460).

Always think Big Picture -- Big Picture!

 

[MangoJ]

Also, if you play 1 hand, you update your count before betting the second hand. That option is missing when you play 2 hands.
So in addition to those arguments above, 1 hand play get better betting efficiency.

 

[aslan]

No -- it's not! Keep the big picture in mind. When you play one hand, the dealer gets half of the total blackjacks and beats your one hand for each of them. When you play two hands, the dealer gets only one-third of the total blackjacks, but beats two of your hands each time.

Money Distribution for 6 total Blackjacks:
Playing one hand, she gets 3 and you get 3. You net 1.5 bets of $1000 each ($1500).
Playing two hands, she gets 2 and you get 4. You net 2 bets of $730 each ($1460).

Always think Big Picture -- Big Picture!

There's another minor factor. If she gets hers when you get yours, then you can take even money in a plus count. And if you catch both hers, you still have two good ones. If a negative count, it's a push.

 

[hardNock]

Reduces Variance...

After reading through this thread I was curious about playing 1 or 2 hands heads up for myself, so I ran a simulation using CVData...

I ran the simulation on the games that are accessible to me...

Here are the bet ramps I chose (spreading basically between 1-8) units:

Single hand only: TC0-=$25, TC1=$50, TC2=$75, TC3=$100, TC4=$125, TC5=$150, TC6+=$200

Two hands: TC0-=$25, TC1=$50, TC2=$75, TC3=2x$50, TC4=2x$75, TC5=2x$75, TC6+=2x$100

As you can see, both reach maximum bets ($200 total) at TC6+. I tried to ramp up both in a progression that made sense and was easy to remember...
Here are the results I got using my playing strategy (Hi-Lo with s16+f4+custom indices)

Using the game variables that are available to me locally H17 LS DAS RSA 75% Penetration 100 hands / hour here are the results (400million sims):

1 Hand Strat: action/hr: $5845.31, winrate $73.20, TBA 1.252%, IBA 1.435%, STDdev/Hr 31.76, Score 84.98, N0 11,767

2 Hand Strat: action/hr: $5965.67, winrate $75.21, TBA 1.261%, IBA 1.446%, STDdev/Hr 28.71, Score 109.78, N0 9,109

From what I see:
1) The TBA for two hand strat is about .01% better and the IBA .031% Better
2) Standard Dev is lower/hr by about 3 units or $75.
3) Score is much higher for 2Hand Strat..
4) N0 is considerably shorter for 2 hand Strat..

Although the differences at this level are small... at higher units and bigger ramps the differences with probably show that playing two hands will reduce variance and have larger winrates... and have even shorter N0....

This does make sense to me.... as spreading the same bet amount in one hand to two hands will reduce variance. It makes the jagged line a bit smoother... =). I also like the fact that the N0 is a shorter run..

But I think another most important factor is cover.. to the casino when your playing two hands.. your max bet is 100/hand. so effectively you most your spreading is 1-4units /HAND. Where as with one hand your spreading between 1-8 units. So psychologically it looks like a bigger spread. This is subjective of course. I've read ZGs article a few times and the Grifter's Gambit is interesting. He spreads three hands and when the count gets high he plays one big hand.. so his actual spread is quite large but it "tricks" the casino into thinking he's a superstitious gambler who is just trying to change the flow of cards.

just my $.02..

 

[MangoJ]

Single hand only: All counts=(TC+1 * $25) except TC6+=$200

Two hands: TC0-=$25, TC1=$50, TC2=$75, TC3=2x$50, TC4=2x$75, TC5=2x$75, TC6+=2x$100

Simulations are only as good as their input. We are not talking about performance on same betsizes, but on same RoR.

 

[hardNock]

Example Mango? Just want to be clear on this...

 

[zengrifter]

When playing two hands in positive counts, if you look at each round as a separate event, not just you with a specific advantage against the dealer, is it not so that in each of those separate events you have a decided "extra" advantage against the dealer as to obtaining the "good cards" likely to be dealt in positive counts. In fact, just keeping the dealer from having an equal chance for getting those blackjacks is a decided advantage, is it not?

No Brother Aslan. z:laugh:g

 

[burneyj5]

hardNock,
Were the TC frequencies the same when you used one hand vs two hands? Your numbers are correct but they are for equal ROUNDS. I would guess the TC frequencies for two hands would be lower so you would need to account for that and adjust the numbers.

 

[zengrifter]

Example Mango? Just want to be clear on this...

You were incorrect to use the same amout total for the two schemes.
1 hand of 100 = 2 hands of 75 for proper comparison. zg

 

[zengrifter]

In fact, just keeping the dealer from having an equal chance for getting those blackjacks is a decided advantage, is it not?

Is this sort of logic wht leads some ploppies to swear by playing three hands always? z:laugh:g

 

[aslan]

Is this sort of logic wht leads some ploppies to swear by playing three hands always? z:laugh:g

Hey, everyone has a little bit of voodoo in them. :laugh:

 

[hardNock]

You were incorrect to use the same amout total for the two schemes.
1 hand of 100 = 2 hands of 75 for proper comparison. zg

so when splitting a max bet at current TC, one must bet 75% of the original?

I've read that but didn't quite understand it.. sorry for being dense.. clarification?

Thanks!

 

[aslan]

No -- it's not! Keep the big picture in mind. When you play one hand, the dealer gets half of the total blackjacks and beats your one hand for each of them. When you play two hands, the dealer gets only one-third of the total blackjacks, but beats two of your hands each time.

Too too true. Thanks for keeping me straight. Where do these notions come from?

 

[Renzey]

Too too true. Thanks for keeping me straight. Where do these notions come from?

The notions come from capsulating a specific scenario in one's mind, and failing to view the associated big picture.
Ploppies live by that code, i.e:

"First base has the best chance of being dealt an Ace, 'cause more cards are in the deck".
"I'm not gonna hit my first hand of 12 vs. 2 'cause I wanna save the 10 for my second hand which is 11."

The list goes on and on.
Always remember : "Big Picture"

 

[jack.jackson]

Where the hells Southpaw? Southpaw we need you to run some more sims:joker:

 

[paddywhack]

Where the hells Southpaw? Southpaw we need you to run some more sims:joker:

Getting packed for Russia I would bet.

 

[Freightman]

I have been trying to find the answer to this question, however I tend to keep getting different answers. If I'm not mistaken, the reason for playing two hands during positive counts is to take as many good cards from ploppies as possible. However, in a heads up game, the only person you are sharing high cards with is the dealer. That having been said, is it higher EV to play 2 hands heads up than only 1 hand? Not only does it seem that the EV would be very similar, but it seems it would draw less heat only playing one hand instead of suddenly splitting to 2.

Thanks.

There are rules, and exceptions to rules
The idea is to maximize your EV. Heads up play 1 hand. 2 or 3 players play 2 hands to get more high cards

Recommendation - as someone stated on thread, last hand or 2 spread to 2 or 3 hands.

Exception heads up play - when your max bet is already at table max and you want to get more money out - play 2 hands table max or close to table max.

Exception to Exception - always is - play that one by ear

 

[blackjack avenger]

Hmmmmm

But you have to agree that where ror is not a consideration (bankroll is enough to absorb double betting), playing two hands at max is better than playing one hand at max, no?

One could have a bank large enough that ror may not be a concern, but risk of drawdown or NO can still be a consideration.

1 hand of $500 is not the same as 2 hands of $500 when considering risk of drawdown or NO.

 

[blackjack avenger]

What is the Goal

I agree if 2 spot max bets are an under bet for your bank, then do so. I am a proponent of 2 hands in positive situations at all times when positive.

This does effect NO and SCORE negatively, this would be an EV chase.

 

[aslan]

One could have a bank large enough that ror may not be a concern, but risk of drawdown or NO can still be a consideration.

1 hand of $500 is not the same as 2 hands of $500 when considering risk of drawdown or NO.

So are you saying it might be better to have one hand of $1,000 than two hands of $500? I thought Qfit said it is always beneficial to play two hands. I know I have done well with it, but that is anecdotal evidence.