$ 10k declaration entering/leaving US
- Thread starter bj21abc
- Start date
Brock Windsor
Well-Known Member
I've been pulled in once going into Canada and once going into the US. Both times they just wanted to count the money and search the car. About 20min delays. Once I was under just under 10k and once I was just over. Crossing with a great deal over might be more troublesome.
you aren't supposed to take more than $10,000 in cash out of the country. If you are taking more than that, it should be in the form of a cashiers check or bank note. I would imagine you would need a pretty good explanation of why you couldn't use an alternate source of funding other than cash. Same thing coming in.bj21abc said:
where did you get this from ??
It's not illegal to carry cash in and out of the US - quote below from US Customs. The only problem is the hassle when declaring it.
"There is no limit on the total amount of monetary instruments that may be brought into or taken out of the United States, nor is it illegal to do so. However, if you transport or cause to be transported (including by mail or other means), more than $10,000 in monetary instruments on any occasion into or out of the United States, or if you receive more than that amount, you must file a report (Customs Form 4790) with U.S. Customs. Failure to comply can result in civil and criminal penalties, including seizure of the currency or monetary instruments. Monetary instruments include U.S. or foreign coin, currency, travelers checks, money orders, and negotiable instruments or investment securities in bearer form."
It's not illegal to carry cash in and out of the US - quote below from US Customs. The only problem is the hassle when declaring it.
"There is no limit on the total amount of monetary instruments that may be brought into or taken out of the United States, nor is it illegal to do so. However, if you transport or cause to be transported (including by mail or other means), more than $10,000 in monetary instruments on any occasion into or out of the United States, or if you receive more than that amount, you must file a report (Customs Form 4790) with U.S. Customs. Failure to comply can result in civil and criminal penalties, including seizure of the currency or monetary instruments. Monetary instruments include U.S. or foreign coin, currency, travelers checks, money orders, and negotiable instruments or investment securities in bearer form."
shadroch said:
bj21abc said:
The law is designed to keep US currency in this country. US dollars are not supposed to be an international currency. I never said it was illegal to do so, just that the law is intended to make it harder. There are countries in south america which have dropped their own currency and now use only American money. In effect, we, the taxpayers of america are subsidizing Ecuador by them using the currency we paid for. The more currency that leaves, the more currency we need to print.
I recently came back from the middle east and inquired about bringing in several hundred thousand dollars in cash.Everyone I spoke to told me it was much easier to wire in the money or if it was illict money to exchange it for diamonds while still there.
Are you serious ?
Firstly, the law covers inflow and outflows. Money - including US$ - coming in needs to be declared. Secondly, the law pertains to any monetary instruments. US$, traveller's checks, Euro, Yen, Naira, bearer bonds etc must be declared. Quirkily enough, gold bullion is exempt. Good luck buying in with a Krugerrand,
The law is big brother's attempt at monitoring cross-border currency flows to hinder illegal activity (drug dealers, money launderers, etc).
As to the example of US$ in use outside of the US, US taxpayers did not "subsidize" or "pay for" anything. Cheap paper and ink were used to print a lot of US$ which have replaced local currency for all intents and purposes in some states. These green bit of paper (US$) which will likely remain in these states were bought by them from the US - traded either for goods and services or other foreign currency which was then used by the US to buy goods/services.
Situations such as these allow the US to "create wealth" without the inflation/US$ devaluation that accompanies printing money.
Firstly, the law covers inflow and outflows. Money - including US$ - coming in needs to be declared. Secondly, the law pertains to any monetary instruments. US$, traveller's checks, Euro, Yen, Naira, bearer bonds etc must be declared. Quirkily enough, gold bullion is exempt. Good luck buying in with a Krugerrand,
The law is big brother's attempt at monitoring cross-border currency flows to hinder illegal activity (drug dealers, money launderers, etc).
As to the example of US$ in use outside of the US, US taxpayers did not "subsidize" or "pay for" anything. Cheap paper and ink were used to print a lot of US$ which have replaced local currency for all intents and purposes in some states. These green bit of paper (US$) which will likely remain in these states were bought by them from the US - traded either for goods and services or other foreign currency which was then used by the US to buy goods/services.
Situations such as these allow the US to "create wealth" without the inflation/US$ devaluation that accompanies printing money.
shadroch said:
May I ask why you bothered to ask the question since you obviously are an expert on the issue? You can quote all the regulations you want, but I'll go with both personal experiance and the suggestions of those who routinely transfer hundreds of millions of dollars back and forth. Large transfers should be handled on a bank to bank transfer, otherwise be prepared for what comes.
Hey Shaq, why?...Hmm... What a coincident! Wong's guys have also discussed this topic currently:
Detailed discussions: (Dead link: http://bj21.com/greenchip/law/index.cgi?read=5405)
Free password: https://secure.bj21.com/docs/landing/
Per Wong's Guys' discussions: 2 gamblers had attempted to structure & to evade the more-than-$10,000-cash-declaration-requirement. Gambler#1 carried $9,400, & and the 2nd: $9,500. The Fed confiscated $18,900 because the gamblers broke the law when they "structured" to evade the reporting requirement.
By the way, when returning from Canada, I and 3 friends were detained by the Fed in an U.S.-Canadian Border Crossing. Hey the Fed had really good incentives to find undeclared cash in excess of $10,000! They took the car APART! When they could not find what they really looked for, i.e., "UNDECLARED CASH,
" they tried to look for something else. They did find Cuban cigars, and they confiscated them. Please don't ask me the year in which the Fed confiscated the cigars because I don't want to give away my age :laugh:I remember seeing a later article reporting that they'll probably get to keep most of it, after paying an as yet undisclosed fine.
I am wondering why there is so much focus on the Canadian border - does this issue not exist at all (for the feds ?) at other points of entry such as ports or airports ?
I am wondering why there is so much focus on the Canadian border - does this issue not exist at all (for the feds ?) at other points of entry such as ports or airports ?
Tico said:Hey Shaq, why?...Hmm... What a coincident! Wong's guys have also discussed this topic currently:
Detailed discussions: (Dead link: http://bj21.com/greenchip/law/index.cgi?read=5405)
Free password: https://secure.bj21.com/docs/landing/
Per Wong's Guys' discussions: 2 gamblers had attempted to structure & to evade the more-than-$10,000-cash-declaration-requirement. Gambler#1 carried $9,400, & and the 2nd: $9,500. The Fed confiscated $18,900 because the gamblers broke the law when they "structured" to evade the reporting requirement.
By the way, when returning from Canada, I and 3 friends were detained by the Fed in an U.S.-Canadian Border Crossing. Hey the Fed had really good incentives to find undeclared cash in excess of $10,000! They took the car APART! When they could not find what they really looked for, i.e., "UNDECLARED CASH,
You might be interested in this newspaper article
$30k fine for taking out $7m
CARRYING two suitcases stuffed with $7 million cash winnings from Marina Bay Sands, South Korean Kim Wooyeong was stopped at the airport and arrested for failing to declare the money he was taking out of the country.
It turned out that his uncle, an agent for casino patrons in Macau, had won the sum here with his friends and then asked Kim to bring the money back to Macau on Aug 24.
On Tuesday, the 28-year-old nephew was fined $30,000 for what is believed to be the biggest amount to date to be carried over the border. A district court heard that anyone moving $30,000 or more, or its equivalent in a foreign currency, must submit a report at a checkpoint. Failure to do so could mean the maximum $30,000 fine and/or up to three years in jail.
(Dead link: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_601094.html)
$30k fine for taking out $7m
CARRYING two suitcases stuffed with $7 million cash winnings from Marina Bay Sands, South Korean Kim Wooyeong was stopped at the airport and arrested for failing to declare the money he was taking out of the country.
It turned out that his uncle, an agent for casino patrons in Macau, had won the sum here with his friends and then asked Kim to bring the money back to Macau on Aug 24.
On Tuesday, the 28-year-old nephew was fined $30,000 for what is believed to be the biggest amount to date to be carried over the border. A district court heard that anyone moving $30,000 or more, or its equivalent in a foreign currency, must submit a report at a checkpoint. Failure to do so could mean the maximum $30,000 fine and/or up to three years in jail.
(Dead link: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_601094.html)
Martin Gayle
Well-Known Member
There is no problem importing money between Canada and USA. The cash has to be declared entering and LEAVING each country. There is a $250 fine in Canada for non-declare. If said monetary instruments are suspected proceeds of crime they will be seized and held.
There are no taxes or levees on currency coming into or leaving Canada as long it is legal.
The border is a hassel but as gamblers you must travel with cash and this is a hassel you are going to deal with. If you are wiring money you will run into problems where banks or other services won't have enough cash to give you. Also, changing large amounts of money, the fees get significant, 2% on each trade.
If you go to a bank in Windsor, Ont and say, I wired $20K here yesterday and I want to withdraw it now, they will say, "$2000 a day limit"
There are no taxes or levees on currency coming into or leaving Canada as long it is legal.
The border is a hassel but as gamblers you must travel with cash and this is a hassel you are going to deal with. If you are wiring money you will run into problems where banks or other services won't have enough cash to give you. Also, changing large amounts of money, the fees get significant, 2% on each trade.
If you go to a bank in Windsor, Ont and say, I wired $20K here yesterday and I want to withdraw it now, they will say, "$2000 a day limit"
There are all kinds of reasons travelers get hassled for carrying U.S. currency, but this isn't one of them. Foreign governments, corporations, and individuals stockpiling U.S. dollars, as a form of savings or as a medium of exchange, has brought a huge benefit to U.S. citizens over the past several decades. To get dollars, people overseas have to sell and send us goods. We get the goods, and then they sit on the dollars and don't buy anything back with them. This has been a subsidy to our standard of living. It amounts to a long term interest-free loan. The U.S. government certainly hasn't tried to stop it. And it's all been accomplished by bank transactions. The amounts transferred by means of travelers carrying actual currency are insignificant.shadroch said:
These used to be called Eurodollars, but today it goes way beyond Europe. If the holders of these dollars ever all decide to redeem them at the same time, it's going to hurt.
Earlier this year me and two friends crossed into USA from Canada with between 9-10K each. Biggest mistake ever. Even though we tried to declare it, we just about got all of our money confiscated due to apparent "structuring". They said that the only way to get around this problem would have been to provide a withdrawl reciept from a bank, or a way to prove that this money was in fact our money seperately, and that 29K didn't belong to 1 person only. After just over 2 hours of interogations, we managed to get on our way with all of our money. Once we got back out to our car, it looked like a tornado had ripped through it.:laugh:
On the way back, we had over 10K each, and things went relatively quick. No interogations, just a simple counting of the money and filling out a form. However, remember to declare the money at BOTH sides of the border. It is a PITA but probably a lot better than forgetting and getting fined.
Moral of the story...bring 10K or more, not 9500. If for some reason you and another person(s) only have about 9000 each, you should just declare it as 18000 together in order to save yourself a lengthy interogation.
You can download the declaration forms on the Border Services website if you want to save some time.
http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin105_cmir.pdf
On the way back, we had over 10K each, and things went relatively quick. No interogations, just a simple counting of the money and filling out a form. However, remember to declare the money at BOTH sides of the border. It is a PITA but probably a lot better than forgetting and getting fined.
Moral of the story...bring 10K or more, not 9500. If for some reason you and another person(s) only have about 9000 each, you should just declare it as 18000 together in order to save yourself a lengthy interogation.
You can download the declaration forms on the Border Services website if you want to save some time.
http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin105_cmir.pdf
Did the declaration in December (flew in to Philly) - took me all of three minutes. I had downloaded and filled in the form already (the customs guy was happy - apparently this saves them time although few people do so) - I just handed over the form, answered a couple of questions and was on my way.
bj21abc said:
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Out of Control Goberment!
So apparently if 2 people they need to cross the border separately with under 10g each.
It's amazing that a law can be for 10g per person becomes 10g per group in practice.
Can someone walk across the border at Detroit? Legally. What is the distance involved? or is there easy cab bus service between the 2 countries at the border?
:joker::whip:
good cards
So apparently if 2 people they need to cross the border separately with under 10g each.
It's amazing that a law can be for 10g per person becomes 10g per group in practice.
Can someone walk across the border at Detroit? Legally. What is the distance involved? or is there easy cab bus service between the 2 countries at the border?
:joker::whip:
good cards
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
How about one guy drives back over on the Ambassador Bridge while the other goes back through the tunnel?
Brock Windsor
Well-Known Member
There is no foot bridge to my knowledge. There is acceptable bus service by way of the tunnel. Cabs are much cheaper in Detroit but not all cabbies want to or are allowed to cross the river. If you did not want to cross with a partner one person could drive while the other takes the bus.blackjack avenger said:
-BW