3,4,A H or S

[Martin Gayle]

are there good stories in there?

It is not a story book.

It is a book about how to count cards using the KO system.

It is written by mathematicians and programmers not by experienced gamblers.

 

[politcat]

It is not a story book.

yeah, I know. I was just kidding, hence smiley

I do like the ones with anecdotes tho

 

[aslan]

yeah, I know. I was just kidding, hence smiley

I do like the ones with anecdotes tho

Next time you want to signal humor use this :grin: or this :laugh: or this :joker:. I call them wise guy, belly laugh, and clown/jester.

The is more a statement that I want to be friends so please don't take anything I say the wrong way.

 

[politcat]

:band2:

wait...

wait...

here it comes...

:laugh:

 

[Damion]

Interesting original question...I was playing third base yesterday and hit a soft 18 against the dealer's 10. Well I ended up with 18 but the dealer beat us all (8 decks, S17, DAS, peek)). This guy at the table proceeded to give me a bag of $#&! for hitting and causing the dealer to miss his bust card (my ten on the hit). Now I didn't go into the finer points of basic strategy as I am just now getting used to remembering all of the moves.
But are there any recommendations on how to respond to these frequent comments about how the third baseman has to assure the dealer loses? I have tried to point out that we don't remember the times the dealer loses when someone takes an unnecessary hit, but I usually get this "you don't understand the game" look.
Anyway, I left with $10 more than I started with after 2 hours...not the most fun at the table I've ever had...

 

[21gunsalute]

Interesting original question...I was playing third base yesterday and hit a soft 18 against the dealer's 10. Well I ended up with 18 but the dealer beat us all (8 decks, S17, DAS, peek)). This guy at the table proceeded to give me a bag of $#&! for hitting and causing the dealer to miss his bust card (my ten on the hit). Now I didn't go into the finer points of basic strategy as I am just now getting used to remembering all of the moves.
But are there any recommendations on how to respond to these frequent comments about how the third baseman has to assure the dealer loses? I have tried to point out that we don't remember the times the dealer loses when someone takes an unnecessary hit, but I usually get this "you don't understand the game" look.
Anyway, I left with $10 more than I started with after 2 hours...not the most fun at the table I've ever had...

I've always found it's a good idea to keep a basic strategy chart on your person. That way if you tell him you're just following basic strategy and he doesn't believe you, you can show him the chart and then what can he possibly say? Of course if you're counting cards and do something that deviates from basic strategy this ploy will obviously not work.

 

[aslan]

I've always found it's a good idea to keep a basic strategy chart on your person. That way if you tell him you're just following basic strategy and he doesn't believe you, you can show him the chart and then what can he possibly say? Of course if you're counting cards and do something that deviates from basic strategy this ploy will obviously not work.

Chances are they will tell you that the Casinos commission those basic strategy cards and that if you follow them you will go broke. Well, they're right on part of it--if all you play is basic strategy, sooner or later you will go broke, if you should live that long. :laugh:

 

[politcat]

This guy at the table proceeded to give me a bag of $#&! for hitting and causing the dealer to miss his bust card (my ten on the hit).

so he knew it was coming?

 

[aslan]

so he knew it was coming?

They always know it was coming! :laugh::laugh::laugh: If it doesn't they say you got lucky.

 

[aslan]

I was playing recently in a game where a BP kept telling me not to double down on my soft 17 and soft 18 against a dealer 4, 5, or 6. She kept pointing to her betting circles in which she was betting two hands in excess of $500 a hand, and saying, "Big money plays, big money plays," as if that fact somehow changed the way I was supposed to play my hand. All night long this went on. And every time I doubled down I lost, making the whole situation even more uncomfortable with her saying, "I told you so! or just casting glaring looks at me each time. We all lost that night. My bad. :sad::whip::laugh:

 

[ihate17]

When big money plays

I was playing recently in a game where a BP kept telling me not to double down on my soft 17 and soft 18 against a dealer 4, 5, or 6. She kept pointing to her betting circles in which she was betting two hands in excess of $500 a hand, and saying, "Big money plays, big money plays," as if that fact somehow changed the way I was supposed to play my hand. All night long this went on. And every time I doubled down I lost, making the whole situation even more uncomfortable with her saying, "I told you so! or just casting glaring looks at me each time. We all lost that night. My bad. :sad::whip::laugh:

The two hands that might upset "big money" more than any is when you land up with soft 18 or 9,9. You might add 12 vs 2 or 3 to that also.

Being a card counter who might be sharing a table with the casino's current favorite whale can be good for you or bad depending often upon said whale.
If this whale is making the pit's month for them you had better not be the guy who disturbs that whale and makes him leave. Since I am always a talkative type at the table it has helped me create a situation where I actually was being paid to play my hands wrong by a whale till they realized they still could lose no matter what I did. This has happened to me over the years, in similar fashion, three times.
You get a soft 18 and the proper play is double or hit depending on the dealer's card, you play it correctly and the whale is harpooned by your play and actually asks you to tell him when you plan to make another "strange" play. Remember when it comes to hands like A,7 or 9,9, strange to most people is just basic to us.
So a while later with $200 bet you get 9,9 vs dealer 3 and mention to the whale that you always split this. Generally these guys will ask you to stay or agree with you but rarely you might get a guy who will pay you to play his way and when this happens I take his money. Pay me $200 not to split and I still may win another $200 on the hand but now I have no down side at all, you just can not beat that.

 

[aslan]

The two hands that might upset "big money" more than any is when you land up with soft 18 or 9,9. You might add 12 vs 2 or 3 to that also.

Being a card counter who might be sharing a table with the casino's current favorite whale can be good for you or bad depending often upon said whale.
If this whale is making the pit's month for them you had better not be the guy who disturbs that whale and makes him leave. Since I am always a talkative type at the table it has helped me create a situation where I actually was being paid to play my hands wrong by a whale till they realized they still could lose no matter what I did. This has happened to me over the years, in similar fashion, three times.
You get a soft 18 and the proper play is double or hit depending on the dealer's card, you play it correctly and the whale is harpooned by your play and actually asks you to tell him when you plan to make another "strange" play. Remember when it comes to hands like A,7 or 9,9, strange to most people is just basic to us.
So a while later with $200 bet you get 9,9 vs dealer 3 and mention to the whale that you always split this. Generally these guys will ask you to stay or agree with you but rarely you might get a guy who will pay you to play his way and when this happens I take his money. Pay me $200 not to split and I still may win another $200 on the hand but now I have no down side at all, you just can not beat that.

This particular BP was especially frustrating because she appeared to know how to count. Normally her large bets were out in positive counts, with a lot of masquerading effort overall. What griped me was that someone who counts should have enough sense to understand the value of perfect basic strategy, but this lady did not seem to have a clue. When I would try to play two hands she would go ballistic as if I was causing a disturbance in the force. When I played two hands she would switch to one hand, and when I went back to one hand she would resume two hands. I never could convince her about the virtue of doubling down on soft 18 or 17 against a 5 or 6. She thought I was crazy. Another annoying habit was that she would play a dollar for the dealer on every hand at the table. I guess that was her way of trying to ingratiate herself to the house. The house was watching her from a distance in clumps of PCs, so I knew they knew she was counting, but they continued to allow her to because they had evaluated her play as very weak. True enough, because before I left her big winnings had turned to big losings. It was funny to watch her when the count turned positive. She would put blacks under greens and reds, then stand up and look at her watch as if to say, "It is really late. This may be my last hand. I have to leave soon, so I'm making a last big effort to win a big one." This is not a bad acting role, but she repeated it all night long which made it seem ludicrous and totally transparent.

 

[StandardDeviant]

NEVER is such a strong word.

Agreed. Agreed!

There are times where standing on soft 18 v. dealer 9-A can make sense. For example, pit bosses know that hitting in this situation is a telltale counter move. One might want to stand every now and then to look less like a counter and more like a ploppie.

 

[creeping panther]

aslan

This particular BP was especially frustrating because she appeared to know how to count. Normally her large bets were out in positive counts, with a lot of masquerading effort overall. What griped me was that someone who counts should have enough sense to understand the value of perfect basic strategy, but this lady did not seem to have a clue. When I would try to play two hands she would go ballistic as if I was causing a disturbance in the force. When I played two hands she would switch to one hand, and when I went back to one hand she would resume two hands. I never could convince her about the virtue of doubling down on soft 18 or 17 against a 5 or 6. She thought I was crazy. Another annoying habit was that she would play a dollar for the dealer on every hand at the table. I guess that was her way of trying to ingratiate herself to the house. The house was watching her from a distance in clumps of PCs, so I knew they knew she was counting, but they continued to allow her to because they had evaluated her play as very weak. True enough, because before I left her big winnings had turned to big losings. It was funny to watch her when the count turned positive. She would put blacks under greens and reds, then stand up and look at her watch as if to say, "It is really late. This may be my last hand. I have to leave soon, so I'm making a last big effort to win a big one." This is not a bad acting role, but she repeated it all night long which made it seem ludicrous and totally transparent.

Aslan,

Wow that must have been fun!!:laugh: I love those people, I love to drive them crazy, confuse the hell out of them and then watch them lose, I get a real sick pleasure out of that. I know the type exactly, very entertaining.:grin::laugh:

CP

 

[politcat]

so now we add soft 18 to no splitting 10,10 to hide counting. oi!

if it's the case that PBs everywhere are that in tune then every deviation is suspicious. eh?

i'm a total noob so don't take this as argument. I'm curious what all the experienced counters around here have to say about how knowledgeable PBs tend to be

 

[aslan]

Agreed. Agreed!

There are times where standing on soft 18 v. dealer 9-A can make sense. For example, pit bosses know that hitting in this situation is a telltale counter move. One might want to stand every now and then to look less like a counter and more like a ploppie.

Hitting a soft 18 against dealer 9-A is a telltale counter move? Since when? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was a normal basic strategy move.

 

[Martin Gayle]

Politicat - Don't let this thread confuse you. Your actions on S18 and 9,9 are very important to your play. Your play is always based on basic strategy. By misplaying those hands you are giving up too much. You are giving up about 10c on the dollar not hitting S18 v X. You should always Double 5,6 v S18 regardless of the count. While splitting X's is valuable to a counter it usually draws too much negative attention from pit and plop to be helpful.

Aslan - Do you think the woman you encountered was playing a +EV game? Just by reading your posts I would doubt it but if she is it might be quite a good cover to get out chunky black but again I think she is probably giving up too much in PE.

 

[aslan]

Politicat - Don't let this thread confuse you. Your actions on S18 and 9,9 are very important to your play. Your play is always based on basic strategy. By misplaying those hands you are giving up too much. You are giving up about 10c on the dollar not hitting S18 v X. You should always Double 5,6 v S18 regardless of the count. While splitting X's is valuable to a counter it usually draws too much negative attention from pit and plop to be helpful.

Aslan - Do you think the woman you encountered was playing a +EV game? Just by reading your posts I would doubt it but if she is it might be quite a good cover to get out chunky black but again I think she is probably giving up too much in PE.

My assessment was that she was giving up way too much by her incomplete knowledge of basic strategy, combined with her excessive dealer tipping, her routinely playing two hand at more than minimum bet, and her occasional betting big even when the count was not positive. The constant PC conferences were clearly, at least to me, assessing the risk of letting her continue to play, which if she did it right at 2 X 33+ at maximum bet ($15 min table), was a clear threat to the house. In the beginning she was only betting 2 X 8 at max (black with a few reds on top) but as the night progressed she must have begun steaming, or trying to get lucky by making a quick, big kill (actually an educated move if you have the bankroll to support it).

 

[politcat]

Politicat - Don't let this thread confuse you. Your actions on S18 and 9,9 are very important to your play. Your play is always based on basic strategy. By misplaying those hands you are giving up too much. You are giving up about 10c on the dollar not hitting S18 v X. You should always Double 5,6 v S18 regardless of the count. While splitting X's is valuable to a counter it usually draws too much negative attention from pit and plop to be helpful.

ok, that's more like it. and yeah, giving up splitting Xs seemed right and reasonable from the first I read it

You should always Double 5,6 v S18 regardless of the count.

3,4 too, right?

 

[politcat]

soft 17 is a hit (or dd on 3-6) so A,6,J is a hit too cuz you stick with BS even after hitting

CV kept telling me to stand on A,6,J

jeez...A,7 can be confusing enough, who needs more