A card-counter's complaint...

[zengrifter]

...is news in some venues. zg

-----------------------

Kansas City Star | Aug. 02, 2005

GAMBLING & TOURISM

Blackjack player's complaint under investigation

By RICK ALM

The Missouri Gaming Commission is investigating a blackjack player's complaint that his casino comps were canceled after pit bosses at Harrah's North Kansas City Casino and Hotel suspected him of counting cards.

If the allegation is upheld it would be a first in Missouri, said commission enforcement chief Steve Johnson.

Casinos in the past often have lost or miscalculated players' points for free meals and other goodies. "They tend to settle those to the advantage of the player," said Johnson.

He said this is the first time in his memory a casino has been accused of using player points as a weapon in its arsenal against card counters.

Blackjack card counting has been a settled issue in Missouri for years. Unlike rules in many other casino states where card counting is considered a form of cheating, Missouri protects counting as a player skill.

But the gaming commission also empowers casinos to protect themselves with certain table rule countermeasures.

Taking away players' earned comps is not one of them, said Johnson. "We're looking to see if they crossed the line."

A Harrah's executive declined to comment.

The player, who asked not be identified so other casinos wouldn't peg him as a counter, said he appealed to casino officials several times before filing his complaint.

The middle-aged businessman contends he lost $263 worth of accumulated credits. He noted one Harrah's executive did offer him a one-time $80 meal voucher - but steadfastly refused to relent and, like the pit bosses, suggested he play blackjack elsewhere.

xxx

 

[Felix Rue-de-Guerre]

I believe this has happened to me.

A while back I posted a situation in which I was denied comps in a Detroit casino. The woman at the players card desk said I was denied comps because I had won money there recently.

A couple of months ago I posted this incident on green-chip's midwest board as a warning; when someone asked about the place.

A popular Detroit-area Handle jumped in on the thread and told a very similar story to mine. How the same place denied redeeming a coup and seemingly lied about the computers being down. For me, they said my comps weren't in the computer yet. Comps went in almost instantly in the past. We both got the impression that the person looking at the computer screen was trying to think on his/her feet and was making up the computer excuses.

This other person said he lasted a couple hours after this incident before he got the boot, and had suggested that his account may have been flagged. I think mine is too.

This is the same place that 86ed the VP players. And, as a matter of fact, one of those people chimed in on the thread.

-Felix

 

[Shaggy18vw]

EXTRA!! EXTRA!! CARD COUNTING NOT CHEATING IN MISSOURI... READ ALL ABOUT IT!!

"Blackjack card counting has been a settled issue in Missouri for years. Unlike rules in many other casino states where card counting is considered a form of cheating, Missouri protects counting as a player skill."

I love (sarcastic) the slant the journalist put on the above sentence, be it intentional or not. Missouri is so kind in that "unlike other states" it deems card counting legal. I do not believe there is any state that considers card counting a form of cheating. Correct me if I am wrong.

-Shaggy

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Yeah he got it wrong

There's no place in the US where counting itself is classified as cheating. At least legally. I recall hearing that you can be arrested in some other countries for suspicion of counting. And there was a case up in Canada where an ace sequencing team was arrested for cheating because they deemed the signaling between team members to be cheating.

 

[Sun runner]

Middle age businessmen

<font size=3>"The player, who asked not be identified so other casinos wouldn't peg him as a counter, .... "</font>

<font size=3>To late for that.

"The middle-aged businessman contends he lost $263 worth of accumulated credits. He noted one Harrah's executive did offer him a one-time $80 meal voucher .... "

So, he's standing on principle for a net $183. A terrific idea.

".... but steadfastly refused to relent .... "

Guess he missed the notion of 'discretion being the better part of valor' in his education as a counter and his trek towards middle age.</font>

 

[eyesfor21]

**case again for never getting players cards...

They are used to keep track of wins....
and once again if you win too much or too often..you know the rest..
Srew them...and do not submit..

 

[Greasy John]

I noticed that too...

and I'm pretty sure you're right.

 

[bigplayer]

Hate to burst everyones bubble, but....

this is standard operating procedure for most casino companies. (wiping out the comp balance of advantage players).

 

[eyesfor21]

EXACTLY

 

[BradRod]

A Different Experience

At the same casino. I was sent an invitaion to join their Gyro VIP club - free valet parking, special and sporting event tickets, free buffet in VIP lounge. I took them up on it mainly for the buffet. Their food comps are excellent but it is nice sometimes not to have to leave the table area to grab a quick bite.

After having been away for about 2 months (the Budapest trip ) I went in to the VIP lounge to get some buffet and when they checked my ID they said that I was no longer a memeber since I had not played there enough recently.

I went there to play a few times since and have doen quite well there - until last night in a tough sesssion I gave too much of it back but still ahead a healthy amount. Nobody ever said anything about me winnng too much .

 

[Felix Rue-de-Guerre]

Yes

>> Their food comps are excellent

Yes, the quality of the food in that casino is better than any other I know of. And the comps were pretty liberal at one time. Maybe they still are for others(lol).

>> Nobody ever said anything about me winnng too much

The person at the player club desk didn't say I won "too much". She stated that I won money last time I was there and therefore was not entitled to complimentaries. "That would be like you winning twice", she said. She was obviously making this crap up on the fly. I only won $700 the day in question. You can surely see how this whole thing smells to high-heaven.

I think what got me was the fact that, during the sessions before the trouble, I spent most of my time wonging in and out of the main floor games. You can only make so many excuses for leaving the table. So I just sat there with no cover except: "cold shoe.. I'll wait for the next one".

8 decks with 1.5 + cut off is the way it was. You just have to Wong like mad to get on top of this game. Very low EV, any cover would be too costly. But it doesn't matter, pen got even worse. The main floor game is unplayable now, and it will probably remain that way.

-Felix

 

[BradRod]

8 deck tables

I have been playing mostly at the 6 deck tables. The las time that I was there before last night was a weeknight and table mins were set at $25. Last night there was a ballgame and other events in the city probably brought bigger crowds in so they were set at $50 mins.

I would not be too paranoid at the 8 deck games I dont think they pay close attention there.

 

[Felix Rue-de-Guerre]

6 deckers too

I was also playing 6 deckers in high limit area at the time in question. Most of my actual win came from there, although most of my time was spent at 8 deckers. There is more to this story that I have posted before and don't want to get into again. I really don't think I'm being paranoid, especially after the confirmation I recieved from the backed-off player.

Another thing that had crossed my mind is that they thought I was hustling comps. When wonging, they may have thought I was sitting there not risking money while my time racked up. So they wiped my comps.

-Felix