Advanced Strategy Information Censorship

[Craps Master]

So my arguement is this: The word is out. The dammage is done. HC games are rare. But we might as well at least know how to play them correctly if we find one. So can we talk about this?

That is a BS argument. Every piece of information about a sensitive advantage play opportunity that leaks out into the public costs the practitioners of that advantage play method some money, whether it is because a casino boss gets hip to it or because another player learns how to take advantage of it and turns into a competitor.

The rest of this thread past the first post seems to be a lot of BS as well. Who is to say who deserves to know how to exploit a given casino weakness? Nobody, really. The people with the knowledge can try to preserve its secrecy by being quiet, or they can discuss it openly. It's really entirely up to them, and questioning their motives is pointless. All that said, the site belongs to Ken Smith, and if he wants to prohibit certain types of discussion, that's his prerogative. What transpires at other sites is irrelevant, and he doesn't really have to justify his reasons to anyone.

As it happens, I do not share Ken Smith's ideals when it comes to the spread of information about advantage play, but I can respect his decision to keep some subjects under lock and key. I do not ascribe any particular virtue to being an established advantage player that entitles such a person to continued earnings or the right to expect that certain information about advantage play remain undisclosed. I think it is naive, if not foolish, to try to fight the flow of information in the information age. In short, if you have a question, I might just have an answer, provided I don't suspect you're a casino insider or regard you as a dbag. This is the kind of stuff PMs (or even email) are for, if it can't be discussed openly.

Anyhow, good luck at the tables.

 

[apex]

That is a BS argument. Every piece of information about a sensitive advantage play opportunity that leaks out into the public costs the practitioners of that advantage play method some money, whether it is because a casino boss gets hip to it or because another player learns how to take advantage of it and turns into a competitor.

The rest of this thread past the first post seems to be a lot of BS as well. Who is to say who deserves to know how to exploit a given casino weakness? Nobody, really. The people with the knowledge can try to preserve its secrecy by being quiet, or they can discuss it openly. It's really entirely up to them, and questioning their motives is pointless. All that said, the site belongs to Ken Smith, and if he wants to prohibit certain types of discussion, that's his prerogative. What transpires at other sites is irrelevant, and he doesn't really have to justify his reasons to anyone.

As it happens, I do not share Ken Smith's ideals when it comes to the spread of information about advantage play, but I can respect his decision to keep some subjects under lock and key. I do not ascribe any particular virtue to being an established advantage player that entitles such a person to continued earnings or the right to expect that certain information about advantage play remain undisclosed. I think it is naive, if not foolish, to try to fight the flow of information in the information age. In short, if you have a question, I might just have an answer, provided I don't suspect you're a casino insider or regard you as a dbag. This is the kind of stuff PMs (or even email) are for, if it can't be discussed openly.

Anyhow, good luck at the tables.

I basically agree with you at this point in my career. I wanted people to share the info with me but realize now how valuable it is and see the value in not talking about it. I realize this does not reflect well on me. At the time It seemed odd to me that some things were allowed to be talked about and some things weren't. I was thinking in black and white, like there should be a rule "All AP techniques should be talked about" or "No Advanced info will be discussed." Like most things in life, each situation needs to be evaluated on it's own. I think Ken, others made the right call.

 

[zengrifter]

That is a BS argument. Every piece of information about a sensitive advantage play opportunity that leaks out into the public costs the practitioners of that advantage play method some money, whether it is because a casino boss gets hip to it or because another player learns how to take advantage of it and turns into a competitor.

Or some yahoo pro publishes 'The Book' and several copies are purchased by casino agents. zg

 

[Craps Master]

Or some yahoo pro publishes 'The Book' and several copies are purchased by casino agents. zg

So what.

 

[Craps Master]

I basically agree with you at this point in my career. I wanted people to share the info with me but realize now how valuable it is and see the value in not talking about it. I realize this does not reflect well on me. At the time It seemed odd to me that some things were allowed to be talked about and some things weren't. I was thinking in black and white, like there should be a rule "All AP techniques should be talked about" or "No Advanced info will be discussed." Like most things in life, each situation needs to be evaluated on it's own. I think Ken, others made the right call.

It seems, then, that you do not agree with me?

 

[apex]

It seems, then, that you do not agree with me?

I agree with you that my original argument was BS. I agree with many who think some info shouldn't be posted publicly, or at least that it isn't in their/my best interest for it to be posted. I agree with you that e-mails and PMs should happen, and that you can't fight the flow of information forever. I still think posting information online is unlikely to ruin a game by having casinos read about it. The influx of players will ruin it as these games are played more frequently and dealers are corrected, but most games will remain until played out/ruined by players IMO.

 

[Craps Master]

I still think posting information online is unlikely to ruin a game by having casinos read about it. The influx of players will ruin it as these games are played more frequently and dealers are corrected, but most games will remain until played out/ruined by players IMO.

There is no doubt that new players entering the scene are a much larger threat to established players than the casinos are, though the casinos can't be ruled out completely as a threat when it comes to the consequences of information sharing.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

There is no doubt that new players entering the scene are a much larger threat to established players than the casinos are, though the casinos can't be ruled out completely as a threat when it comes to the consequences of information sharing.

Yes, but who gives a flying act of fornication about the established players? A new guy who wants to try it has as much of a right to be in that seat and try it as a guy who has been doing it for 10 years full time. Some games are at risk of being overplayed, while others are underplayed.

Not to say information should be broadcast indiscriminately, and there are certain games that are complicated and not for rookies, but if there's a guy who is ready and able to play a game I'll help him, and it's usually reciprocated. I've gotten a lot of good scouting and other assistance from new AP's.

 

[Craps Master]

Yes, but who gives a flying act of fornication about the established players?

The administrators of this site, apparently. Ken Smith listed such among his reasons for not wanting certain information to be freely discussed here. He is entitled to that opinion.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

So what.

Couldn't have said it better myself. By the way, what brings you back to the forum?

 

[zengrifter]

So what.

Same thing only a much faster decrease in future value.
'The Book 1' was probably sold more copies to casino agents than players. zg

 

[zengrifter]

Couldn't have said it better myself. By the way, what brings you back to the forum?

He's a new kinder-gentler Craps Master and his return is appreciated. zg
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6115
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=38339
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6173

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Same thing only a much faster decrease in future value.
'The Book 1' was probably sold more copies to casino agents than players. zg

And? Did all the opportunities dry up? I think you may be misunderstanding what exactly creates profitable HC opportunities in the first place. Hint: it's not whether or not the PB knows that you can beat carny games by seeing the hole card.

 

[zengrifter]

And? Did all the opportunities dry up? I think you may be misunderstanding what exactly creates profitable HC opportunities in the first place. Hint: it's not whether or not the PB knows that you can beat carny games by seeing the hole card.

I am not against the publishing, but I'll bite, what creates the HC opps?...
... Or do I need to go lurk at The Book sycophant forum (Archive copy) for the answer? zg

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

I am not against the publishing, but I'll bite, what creates the HC opps?...
... Or do I need to go lurk at The Book sycophant forum (Archive copy) for the answer? zg

Things that cause HC opportunities to appear:
- laziness
- poor attention to detail
- career apathy
- misunderstanding of how a hole card is seen

In some cases, a PB will not be able to see the hole card even if a skilled player is playing the game and the PB knows it. Just knowing that a dealer is flashing is not enough to be able to exploit it. If a PB suspects a player of playing a flashing dealer, and he looks for the flash but can't see it...

Things that rarely, if ever, cause HC opportunities to appear:
- PBs not knowing proper strategy for playing HC games (which is the majority of what casino personnel would obtain from reading the book)

 

[johnnyb]

Try not to make HC'ing a big deal. People here feel so special that they know secret "classified" information on this subject but it is on a very RARE occasion that you will actually find a dealer who flashes, even for a split second. I don't know much about 3CP, but on the blackjack table, the dealer contacts the card directly from the opening in the shoe most of the time with the middle finger, index finger, and ring finger and slides it out immediately onto the table. This is the way they're trained, and I've only seen one or two dealers ever fail to do it quickly and perfectly, leaving absolutely no chance for you to see their card.

You don't have to build trust or make friends on this forum if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean most, if not all, the people on this forum are bad. Just about everyone is here to help you.

Don't invest too much time into HC'ing - you will be scouring shops across the U.S. looking for sloppy dealers. Concentrate on mastering your CC'ing technique and indices.

Remember that HC'ing wasn't magically invented, people just like you with interest in this advanced technique looked for exploits in sloppy dealing and learned from their experiences. If they learned by themselves, so can you.

Good luck!

 

[Count Backula]

agreed x2

I think the censoring of information is 100% necessary. Yes, it is frustrating that you cant find the answer to your problems/questions by typing it in Google. At the same time, how great will it be when you find out the answer for yourself and nobody else knows about it? We have to respect the individuals that put in the time to figure out new ways of beating games. It is only fair.

Some people just don't understand that, but it's true.