Alias Players Card Jackpot W2-G Question

[Finn Dog]

OK, here's one humdinger of a hypothetical question for you:

Let's say you're in a casino and because you're counting but also comp hustling, you're using an alias Players Card with offers coming to a nearby relative's address.

Then, let's say for camo, you're putting up some $1 slot action. And then it happens: you win a jackpot high enough to trigger a W2-G (or let's say you win one of the two largest Lucky Ladies sidebets)...great Caesar's Ghost, now what?

All of a sudden the blazers descend upon you...and you're asked for your Drivers License...so you say you left your wallet back at your hotel or you lost your wallet last night (but this will sure make up for it).

Then they ask for your Social Security number, which you furnish, but it gets recorded and the W2-G is issued under the alias with your SS#.

What are the repercussions? (Let's say the alias was a few letters off from your real surname but both surnames started with the same first few letters but your first name was spot on.) Any CPAs in the house or ex-IRS agents or anyone have an educated guess?

Best regards,

FD

 

[callipygian]

you're asked for your Drivers License...so you say you left your wallet back at your hotel or you lost your wallet last night (but this will sure make up for it).

I highly, highly doubt that the casino would allow you to fill out a W-2G under a fake name, even if you put your real SSN down. I'd guess you'd be asked to get your ID. It's much easier to explain to the casino that you were using a fake card than to explain to the IRS that you were using a fake name, so given the choice, piss off the casino, not the IRS. Lying to the casino - "I changed my name," for instance - is not a crime, but lying to the IRS will quickly land you in Federal Pound Me In The Ass prison. Getting your casino privileges revoked for using someone else's card is a mild punishment compared to getting your freedom revoked for what the IRS might interpret as tax evasion.

If this scenario is not hypothetical, I'd immediately visit a tax professional to help you sort this out, and perhaps even a lawyer. The IRS is not an institution that you want to f[ool] around with. The casinos ... meh.

 

[hawkeye]

That hypothetical question is rough, I truly hope it is hypothetical and you're not writing this from a hotel room in Vegas.

 

[blackchipjim]

Pants on fire!

I'm not a professional anything but it is my oppinion that as long as you come clean with the real ssn and Id in the end you aren't in any real trouble. The " I don't want my ..... to know I gamble " is a plausible excuse for not having the correct name or address on the card. I would not bullshit anyone when it comes to taxes or fessing up to your real identity or you could be in for a big hassle. That's just my opinion on the whole thing. blackchipjim

 

[UncrownedKing]

The " I don't want my ..... to know I gamble " is a plausible excuse for not having the correct name or address on the card.

I think this is your best bet. The IRS won't give a crap about anything you say to them. Give the casino ^^ that line. They will be pissed but not as pissed as the IRS.

 

[callipygian]

I'm not a professional anything but it is my oppinion that as long as you come clean with the real ssn and Id in the end you aren't in any real trouble.

Clarification - you aren't in any real trouble with the IRS, which is the real real trouble. You might get into real trouble with the casino and have your comps revoked, but that's not real real trouble.

 

[moo321]

I wouldn't play any game that could trigger a w2g with a fake identity in the first place.

 

[Sonny]

I wouldn't play any game that could trigger a w2g with a fake identity in the first place.

Good call. If you win a slot bonus with a fake card (or someone else's card) they might try to default on you by claiming that you won it fraudulently.

-Sonny-

 

[Finn Dog]

Great input from everyone thus far!

That hypothetical question is rough, I truly hope it is hypothetical and you're not writing this from a hotel room in Vegas.

Nope, just my vivid imagination cooking in my practice laboratory--and wanting to know all my bases are covered before I get out of the D-League--you know: ex-Boy Scout.

I wouldn't play any game that could trigger a w2g with a fake identity in the first place.

I agree with moo; looks like this is the most prudent course to take.

Therefore, it appears if you're going to be playing any side bet with windfall potential, you'd better use your real identity (just in case)...same goes for any slot cover that could generate an unforseen W2-G.

In summary, to me it looks like the most realistic approach to the standing debate of playing rated with your real identity, or with an alias, or playing unrated is to play rated with your true identity--as this will cover three bases:

1. Automatically the Pit will not be suspicious of someone playing unrated.

2. You won't throw away the comps.

3. You can add slot cover and not have to worry about an unforeseen W2-G windfall or you can play the Lucky Ladies and not worry either.

Then, if you're ultimately back off from the chain from either cume wins or bonehead plays, you could if necessary resort to the legal means of changing your name and start all over.

Best regards,

FD

 

[Sonny]

1. Automatically the Pit will not be suspicious of someone playing unrated.

Not necessarily. It is possible to play unrated without getting heat for it. It all depends on your playing style.

2. You won't throw away the comps.

True, but sometimes the comps will not be more valuable than the play. It is nice to have both but in many cases you will have to choose one or the other. If you’re playing nickels then you won’t get many comps and if you’re playing blacks you probably don’t want the attention unless you're comp hustling. It all depends on the individual situation.

3. You can add slot cover and not have to worry about an unforeseen W2-G win fall and you can play the Lucky Ladies and not worry either.

I think you are relying much too heavily on slot cover. Frankly I don’t think there is such a thing. I’ve never known an AP who didn’t get backed off because he had some slot play on his card. If they catch you, you’re done. No amount of slot play will save you, it will only make you poorer.

My overall advice: Stop worrying about it. It should be quite a while before you need to worry about cover plays, aliases, and big bonuses. By the time you need this information you will know it. Right now just focus on playing a strong game. Without that you won’t need all the other stuff.

-Sonny-

 

[Finn Dog]

Not necessarily. It is possible to play unrated without getting heat for it. It all depends on your playing style.

Any other good ones besides the Gambler's Anonymous and spouse angles?

Best regards,

FD

 

[Sonny]

Any other good ones besides the Gambler's Anonymous and spouse angles?

There are many times when nobody will even ask you about a players card. If you are playing in a casino where your bets don’t attract any attention you don’t need to worry about it. If you think the casino will be interested in your play, just play during times when the pit is unavailable. Look for shift changes, table fills, card changes, busy weekend nights, special events (fights, concerts, conventions, etc.), broken shuffle machines, other players turning the bosses or other opportunities. Don’t give them a chance to ask you for a card. They will never notice you or your winnings.

-Sonny-

 

[Finn Dog]

There are many times when nobody will even ask you about a players card. If you are playing in a casino where your bets don’t attract any attention you don’t need to worry about it. If you think the casino will be interested in your play, just play during times when the pit is unavailable. Look for shift changes, table fills, card changes, busy weekend nights, special events (fights, concerts, conventions, etc.), broken shuffle machines, other players turning the bosses or other opportunities. Don’t give them a chance to ask you for a card. They will never notice you or your winnings.

-Sonny-

Jeez, at two shops I've been in recently (one being a regional location of a large national and the other a permanently-docked sweat shop) it was the dealer that asked for my card as soon as I sat down...on low limit Red no less!

By the way, one guy said he didn't have a card (and didn't want one when the dealer asked), and some loud-mouth Ploppie starts giving him the business: "oh he wants to be anonymous...he wants to stay under the radar".

 

[shadroch]

If you win a slot jackpot playing with another persons card, simply remove the card or say it was in the machine when you sat down.
The casino will not pay you without valid id. What happened to me was they filled out a form,and had me sign it. I was told to bring my id to security and present it. They also insisted on a photo so they could match the photo and signature to my id when I presented it.

 

[Finn Dog]

If you win a slot jackpot playing with another persons card, simply remove the card or say it was in the machine when you sat down.

Shadroch,

I thought of that, too--but then I thought if they have nothing better to do, or if the win is big enough, they could always back up the tape and see who puts what card in. Maybe that's a question for our very own Mr. M.

Mr. M, are you out there?

 

[callipygian]

Any other good ones besides the Gambler's Anonymous and spouse angles?

Don't use the GA line. People might take it upon themselves to help you. The goal is to appear like an evasive jerk, not someone who's going to cause any sort of real trouble for himself or the casino.

When asked for a card, just say you don't have one. If they ask why, say you don't want one. If they tell you about stuff you can get, tell them you don't gamble that often. If they tell you the points last forever, then repeat that you don't want one. Tell them you don't want junk mail. Tell them you have enough cards. Tell them you just want to play cards and deal.

Only if you really feel like you compelled to give an answer do you pull the spouse line, and when you do it, act like you're pissed off. Nobody wants to admit that out loud and if you do it willy nilly it just sounds like a rehearsed excuse.

And the spouse line isn't going to work for everyone, either. If you're in your early 20's and you're not wearing a wedding ring, nobody's going to believe you. If you're high strung or combative or gregarious, nobody's going to believe you. If you appear wealthy and appear to have disposable income, the chances of you appearing honest are reduced. It's a whole persona of "I've been married for 15 years, my wife and I fight about this all the time, and I gamble anyway, so long as she doesn't find out everything's fine." You're the type of guy who cashes his paycheck and takes out $200 a week and lies to his wife about how much he makes, not the friendly, successful businessman with a gullible trophy wife.

 

[Finn Dog]

I think you are relying much too heavily on slot cover. Frankly I don’t think there is such a thing. I’ve never known an AP who didn’t get backed off because he had some slot play on his card. If they catch you, you’re done. No amount of slot play will save you, it will only make you poorer.

Sonny,

For what it's worth, two famous surveillance guys--D.V. Cellini and Blackjackinfo.com's Mr. M--don't necessarily share that opinion!

Thanks for all your help and everyone else's.

Best regards,

FD

 

[Sonny]

Sonny,

For what it's worth, two famous surveillance guys--D.V. Cellini and Blackjackinfo.com's Mr. M--don't necessarily share that opinion!

That's just been my experience. I've never had a a CM tell me "We were going to bar you for your skilled BJ play, but since you play other games carry on."

-Sonny-

 

[Finn Dog]

Not necessarily. It is possible to play unrated without getting heat for it. It all depends on your playing style.

...sometimes the comps will not be more valuable than the play. It is nice to have both but in many cases you will have to choose one or the other. If you’re playing nickels then you won’t get many comps and if you’re playing blacks you probably don’t want the attention unless you're comp hustling. It all depends on the individual situation.

I thought playing Black unrated was the surest fire way to draw unwanted attention (and an automatic skills check)?

 

[shadroch]

Shadroch,

I thought of that, too--but then I thought if they have nothing better to do, or if the win is big enough, they could always back up the tape and see who puts what card in. Maybe that's a question for our very own Mr. M.

Mr. M, are you out there?

Why would they care? You are really getting over-paranoid about these things.