Anyone have this happen to them?

[tribute]

When they had the green with red on top, they would double down to two blacks and two reds. After I saw this I left the table immediately. I used to think the cameras saw everything, but the truth is they are usually so low detail they can't even see the card. Most casinos just BS when they say they are reviewing the tape, they aren't, they are just asking some boss somewhere what to do.

What idiot would even try to get away with placing a black next to a red for his double down! Forget about what the camera sees or doesn't see. A dealer with minimal skills will not overlook this gross attempt.

 

[ScottH]

I still think honesty is still the best policy. blackchipjim

I can't be cetain, but if you could run a sim on it I bet honesty is -EV in the long run! :laugh:

 

[ihate17]

my personal fear

side note: i don't however, consider holecarding without collusion cheating.

Neither does the law. The problem you can run into in a place like Vegas or an Indian casino, is collusion is cheating and if a casino says you were working with the dealer, gaming will arrest you. It may never come to trial, you might be released fairly quickly but the initial reaction of the casino owned and operated gaming agents and board is to take the casino's word for it first and then investigate. More often it is the DA who just dismisses things because 1. The tape does not show collusion.
2. The casino (this happens often) can not produce the tape.

So, as a long time holecarder this is something I fear when playing with a sloppy dealer. At the same time, the situation I wrote about was different because it was just too easy and visible. Generally you see a flash of pips or index, not a nearly whole side edge of a card with the hand held deck turned right in your direction. To me it was like a big Vegas sign flashing the number of the next card to be dealt. I could see it too easily and so could anyone walking by the table at the right time.

ihate17

 

[ihate17]

Harder to find

How exactly does holecarding work though for a shoe game since they never left the card up?

The pitch game is the real home of holecardng.
The shoe game does have weak dealers and I have found two ways that a few dealers reveal a bit of the card. I do not discuss the method on a board or with people I do not know because it is easily corrected if someone points it out to the dealer, but if you spend your time looking to holecard shoe dealers, you will spend much more time looking than playing. Do not overlook the CSM completely.

ihate17

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Also some dealers are so mind numbingly stupid its incrediable what you can get away with.

In Australia we are allowed to put out double down bets even when its not our turn, so say you are on the box that acts last, you can put out the chips even when the dealer is acting on the first box's hand (not sure if this is common rules). Anyway I saw people putting out the doulbe down bet early, but putting it out as if it were a back bet. THen when the dealer comes to act on their hand, they double both bets... 3:1 double down!

im assuming a back bet is where 2 ppl use the same circle.. that is not allowed in the usa, and u will never see more than 2 stacks of chips on a circle (the 2nd stack being the D down)

 

[Sonny]

im assuming a back bet is where 2 ppl use the same circle.. that is not allowed in the usa, and u will never see more than 2 stacks of chips on a circle (the 2nd stack being the D down)

There are a few casinos in the US that will allow rider bets, but it is rare (unfortunately). That bet offers some good opportunities.

-Sonny-

 

[bj bob]

"The longest term"

I can't be cetain, but if you could run a sim on it I bet honesty is -EV in the long run! :laugh:

"Thou shalt not bear false witness...." Unnamed subject promises very Pos.EV for the Lonnnnnnnnng term!:laugh:

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

What idiot would even try to get away with placing a black next to a red for his double down! Forget about what the camera sees or doesn't see. A dealer with minimal skills will not overlook this gross attempt.

u misunderstood, and he misspoke, he meant that if he has a green/red out, he will have TWO sets of black/red in his hand and he will swap both sets in for the green/red

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Do not overlook the CSM completely.

wut do u mean by that

 

[ChefJJ]

im assuming a back bet is where 2 ppl use the same circle.. that is not allowed in the usa, and u will never see more than 2 stacks of chips on a circle (the 2nd stack being the D down)

Me and some friends were doing it a few weeks ago on a busy Saturday night with 3 dealers...they didn't mind. They would combine the 2 stacks together though, and after a few hands we would just combine them before the dealer dealt.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

There are a few casinos in the US that will allow rider bets, but it is rare (unfortunately). That bet offers some good opportunities.

-Sonny-

good opportunities for cheating.. but nothing else..

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Me and some friends were doing it a few weeks ago on a busy Saturday night with 3 dealers...they didn't mind. They would combine the 2 stacks together though, and after a few hands we would just combine them before the dealer dealt.

combining both bets is not the same thing, but actually, most casinos dont even allow that, so u have to do it secretly, and if the dealer sees your friend handing u chips, he will ask him not to stand behind your chair and that u cant do that, which i think is lame because no matter wut its still 1 bet; perhaps they dont want 10+ ppl at a table (ppl standing behind all the chairs)

 

[Sonny]

good opportunities for cheating.. but nothing else..

That's not true at all. There are several ways to use rider bets to legally gain an advantage. Many of those techniques have been described in other threads on this website. Do a search for "Rider Bets", "Sacrifice Splits" or "Back Betting" and you will find them. Wong described one of them in Basic BJ.

-Sonny-

 

[ChefJJ]

combining both bets is not the same thing, but actually, most casinos dont even allow that, so u have to do it secretly, and if the dealer sees your friend handing u chips, he will ask him not to stand behind your chair and that u cant do that, which i think is lame because no matter wut its still 1 bet; perhaps they dont want 10+ ppl at a table (ppl standing behind all the chairs)

Exactly...we were surprised that they didn't care. The tables were crowded and my friend didn't really even know how to play...he just wanted to throw in on my play. Hell, he was throwing in on mine and another one of us at the table next to us! Pit crew didn't mind either. But, yeah, it was unusual.

good luck

 

[ihate17]

Question

wut do u mean by that

When Russo and Grosjean were falsely arrested, what game were they playing, how was it dealt and what were they actually doing?

They were playing three card poker, it was dealt from a CSM, and they could see at least one of the dealers cards about every hand, and I have been told sometimes they saw two.

ihate17