AP's Most profitable games

[Brock Windsor]

Any information about specific ways to beat those games (other than information already widely published) should be kept secret. That’s exactly what Praying Mantis told us not to do!

-Sonny-

Sonny, without letting anything out of the bag.. What games would you spend time searching for an advantage at if BJ was no longer? I had high hopes for this thread but other then some good advice on promotional play and variance considerations from AM, not much info yet.
BW

 

[zengrifter]

Your reply is appreciated and I will contradict two opinions. First, I am quite sure and I think you will agree that hole carding Spanish 21 is a significant advantage.

Yes, you are right. But shoe games are rarely frontloadable.

Here's one I found once - Casino Royal accidentally placed standard decks in their Span21 game
and I played it for 20-min before they caught it. zg

 

[Sonny]

Sonny, without letting anything out of the bag.. What games would you spend time searching for an advantage at if BJ was no longer?

You mean if BJ was totally dead? :sad: Hmmm. I would start with other card games first. Spanish 21 is pretty easy to beat. Maybe 3 Card Poker and Baccarat next. I’d look at Casino War but I don’t think there are that many casinos that offer it. I would eventually get into the Big 6 and roulette wheels on the side, and eventually I would work on my Pai Gow skills (although that’s a pretty tough one).

As usual I would keep my eyes open for new promotions, side bets and carnival games. Many Indian casinos have unusual games that are sometimes exploitable. At that point I would really just have to look at games that I’ve never looked at before. Really any game is beatable. The tricky part is finding a way to do it legally.

-Sonny-

 

[EasyRhino]

Wow, I'm trying to imagine becoming a Casino War advantage player. I don't even think I've seen people betting green chips on that game, let alone blacks.

For instance, I play three card poker almost every time I go to a casino.

OK, I'm jealous. Well, Not totally jealous, since 3CP is pretty boring.

 

[toastblows]

3CP at a casino is super boring...unless you are killing time with the "free" drinks. I never seem to fluctuate more then $100 +/-, but my sobriety is always in the negative :grin:

 

[Brock Windsor]

You mean if BJ was totally dead? :sad: Hmmm. I would start with other card games first. Spanish 21 is pretty easy to beat. Maybe 3 Card Poker and Baccarat next. I’d look at Casino War but I don’t think there are that many casinos that offer it. I would eventually get into the Big 6 and roulette wheels on the side, and eventually I would work on my Pai Gow skills (although that’s a pretty tough one).

As usual I would keep my eyes open for new promotions, side bets and carnival games. Many Indian casinos have unusual games that are sometimes exploitable. At that point I would really just have to look at games that I’ve never looked at before. Really any game is beatable. The tricky part is finding a way to do it legally.

-Sonny-

Thanks Sonny. I had thought Big6 might be higher on the list as I know Grosjean has written about it, but consensus seems to be that it is not. I'll keep working on my AP through the means I already know.

 

[Brock Windsor]

3CP at a casino is super boring...unless you are killing time with the "free" drinks. I never seem to fluctuate more then $100 +/-, but my sobriety is always in the negative :grin:

You are lucky, I get wild fluctuations playing this game. Sometimes 30 times my ante bet over the course of a few hours....I would think most AP is pretty boring if you're good at it, that's why it's a grind.
BW

 

[toastblows]

You are lucky, I get wild fluctuations playing this game. Sometimes 30 times my ante bet over the course of a few hours....I would think most AP is pretty boring if you're good at it, that's why it's a grind.
BW

Dont you find in a 6 person dealt game live it takes forever to shuffle and deal. This game has huge swings in my "overall" experience. I have been down over $1k ($5 and $10 bets) in less than 15 mins and up over $2k in less than 1 hr when i played online. But I was figuring about 5-6 hands a minute online vs 1 hand in 2 minutes live. Since i dont gamble online anymore, i sit in live games when im looking to get toasted on the casino's dime....hoping I can stay around even basically when all is said.

 

[Brock Windsor]

Dont you find in a 6 person dealt game live it takes forever to shuffle and deal. This game has huge swings in my "overall" experience. I have been down over $1k ($5 and $10 bets) in less than 15 mins and up over $2k in less than 1 hr when i played online. But I was figuring about 5-6 hands a minute online vs 1 hand in 2 minutes live. Since i dont gamble online anymore, i sit in live games when im looking to get toasted on the casino's dime....hoping I can stay around even basically when all is said.

You should get 40-50 hands an hour at this game live. Playing online you are not playing with an advantage. The best way to get sloppy on the casinos dime is sit down at the bar to a good Video Poker game and play perfect strategy ordering drinks as often as the bartender will bring'em.

 

[toastblows]

You should get 40-50 hands an hour at this game live. Playing online you are not playing with an advantage. The best way to get sloppy on the casinos dime is sit down at the bar to a good Video Poker game and play perfect strategy ordering drinks as often as the bartender will bring'em.

40-50 sounds right. In MN they have to collect 50 cents on every $25 you bet at table games that are not BJ, some state mandated thing i believe.....this slows down play even more. I would estimate 30 hands/hr average on full table. Of course they dont give you free booze on the rez, so i dont play 3CP in MN.

I dont smoke so sitting at the bar while true is the best gig for boozing isnt my first choice. I like a slow game of 3CP or TX Hldm Bns min stakes (smoke free table if possible) to get toasted on. :laugh:

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

That is exactly the kind of information that we are not going to post on a public forum. If the casinos find out how we’re beating their games they will “fix” them. Any information about specific ways to beat those games (other than information already widely published) should be kept secret. That’s exactly what Praying Mantis told us not to do!

-Sonny-

that is so stupid.. if that is true, then why do we talk about counting cards? i said WITHOUT holecarding, biased wheels, or anything else like that, im talking about card counting, which we can talk about, so talk about that, and if you guys seriously want to act all covert because it makes you feel cool (im almost certain your overreacting), then fine, pm me and let me know how all those games are beatable.. by not telling us, people will continue to say "such and such isnt really beatable" and you will continue to say "yes it is, but i cant tell you how" so its a stupid circle..

besides, alls you need to do is list how its beatable if you dont want to tell me how to do it, for instance, just be like "roulette - biased wheels.. carribean stud - hole carding mostly, but you could count cards but it would be much harder than bj.. blackjack - card counting, hole carding".. u see? i didnt release any information, such as "most dealers deal the cards like such and such, and the following casinos do this all the time, and if you stand at a 30 degree angle to the table, you can see it, i did it last night to dealer x, blah blah blah"..

i seriously think some of you love acting covert, and overdo it.. i can guarantee this tho, more people are overcautious than undercautious when it comes to heat at the casinos and such.. also, why did you start a topic like this if we cant talk about it? its either all or nothing; shut down this site and dont talk about anything AP related, or lay it all out there MINUS names and places, and extremely unique/specific methods that are illegal or whatever

but honestly, i just want to know which games are beatable WITHOUT the casino making errors; casino errors would include hole carding, biased wheels, bad dealers

 

[Brock Windsor]

I started this thread not to seek how to beat games, but rather what games were most commonly beaten by professionals. To beat any game you must have knowledge or control over a variable to which the game does not expect you to have. Cardcounting, dice control, biased wheels, hole-carding, all involve gaining knowledge about or influencing an outcome in an effort to make it less random. I do not need to be walked through how a game may be beaten, I would just like to know which games can be beaten most often in relation to the advantage gained to calculate the value of searching for such an advantage. If it becomes a mathematical question such as "I can gain knowledge of one of the dealers cards in carribean stud poker, how much of an advantage can I gain and how" then computing strategies becomes important and more help is needed. (Ken has already said Carribean stud ignoring jackpot can not be beaten with the knowledge of only one additional dealer card.) This is not an amateur 'how to' thread, I would just like to make sure I am looking in all the right places.
As an aside I would like to thank AM for his advice on promotional play and Sonny/ZG for recommending Bacarrat as a game to search for an advantage.
BW

 

[aslan]

Better than BJ?

Would anyone say (on a day-to-day basis) that any of the other games is better for AP than BJ, and what game would that be?

 

[moo321]

Yes. Online casino bonus whoring, and multi-tabling poker with a bonus or rakeback is usually a much better leverage of a bankroll. Live poker games are often a better leverage of a bankroll. A good single or double deck game or an especially good shoe game would beat out live poker, though.

 

[aslan]

Yes. Online casino bonus whoring, and multi-tabling poker with a bonus or rakeback is usually a much better leverage of a bankroll. Live poker games are often a better leverage of a bankroll. A good single or double deck game or an especially good shoe game would beat out live poker, though.

An especially good 6-deck game meaning 75% to 80% pen? Where does one find one of these? I think AC has mostly 65% to 70% pen, which I think can be barely beaten, although I might be wrong about that.

 

[ChefJJ]

Would anyone say (on a day-to-day basis) that any of the other games is better for AP than BJ, and what game would that be?

A dice player with consistent skill and an empty table.

good luck

 

[Preston]

A dice player with consistent skill and an empty table.

good luck

AMEN BROTHER!!!

I CAN ROLL 9'S LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW!!! I roll 'em like the other players roll 7's.

 

[moo321]

An especially good 6-deck game meaning 75% to 80% pen? Where does one find one of these? I think AC has mostly 65% to 70% pen, which I think can be barely beaten, although I might be wrong about that.

It's hard to compare whether blackjack or live poker would be a better use of your time (there's no comparison with bonus whoring or online poker with bonuses/rakeback). It depends on how good you are at poker. I consider 1 deck cut off to be a very good game.

 

[bj bob]

Did I read that correctly?

A dice player with consistent skill and an empty table.

good luck

JJ, did you have an epiphany about controlled shooting or what?
Seems to me that you have always had serious doubts about the whole concept up until now. What happened? Don't tell me that something has turned you into a true believer. Please elucidate as to your new views on this matter.:cool2:

 

[ChefJJ]

JJ, did you have an epiphany about controlled shooting or what?
Seems to me that you have always had serious doubts about the whole concept up until now. What happened? Don't tell me that something has turned you into a true believer. Please elucidate as to your new views on this matter.:cool2:

No epiphany in that regard.

I've been into this for a long time now...