Article on MGM surveillence guy

[Pro21]

That has been my experience also. They kinda lay in wait. :laugh:

Yes, but if you hadn't used a players card they would have no idea who they are waiting for.

 

[daddybo]

Yes, but if you hadn't used a players card they would have no idea who they are waiting for.

ROFLMAO... I learned that one the hard way.. there are times to use one and there are times not to use one. :eyepatch:

P.S. Its'a hoot to see the stuff that comes up on the computer about you when you are "tagged".

 

[Mr. T]

We calculate advantage and risk based on a billion hands and an absolutely defined set of strategies. The software used by some casinos looks at a tiny number of hands and attempts to divine the playing, betting, wonging, tipping and cover strategies based on an absurdly small subset of hands. It has no concept of what is a cover play, versus an error, versus an actual strategy. It doesn't even know the tag values used, whether there are side counts, if the player is tracking, if the player is taking cues from a partner, or if the player mimicking someone else. The entire concept is ridiculous.

I tried to figure out how to do this to help a player knowing exactly his strategies and decided even then it is impossible.

Sorry, you need billions of hands to calcalate the HA. How do the casinos ever catch card counters then.
If I play say 50 hands of about BS play, and I can calculate what is my HA. It will take the computer less than 50 if the card counter ram up his bet according to the count.
Let me just add the technology is there but whether the casino feel a need to use it is another matter.

 

[johndoe]

Sorry, you need billions of hands to calcalate the HA. How do the casinos ever catch card counters then.
If I play say 50 hands of about BS play, and I can calculate what is my HA. It will take the computer less than 50 if the card counter ram up his bet according to the count.
Let me just add the technology is there but whether the casino feel a need to use it is another matter.

The easiest way is to look for a correlation between bet and count. Strong enough correlation (this can be quantified), and you have an AP. It's still a judgment call, and subject to error, like anything with uncertainty. That's why short sessions are usually recommended; it keeps the uncertainty high.

 

[ihate17]

advantage player backoffs come in all shapes and sizes

Here we are speaking about MGM, a huge casino, with a big database. At another casino we might be speaking about a place with half dozen tables or less.
Decisions are made by shift managers in many big places but might be made by a pit boss in smaller places.
Decisions are made solely on your blackjack play in one place while another place might look into their computer and see that you or your wife lose more money on machines than you can make at blackjack, making you an acceptable player.
Some places have an excepted or just a sort of tolerance level. Since MGM does not rate a player who averages less than $25, do they actually look at a low rolling counter on a $5 table, spreading 5-50 or so? While many of us have learned that most Coast casinos certainly would be watching this guy?

Pits tend to dislike new computer programs, especially ones that could possibly cost pit jobs and it is reasonable to believe that surviellance types feel the same way. Might they under use or even sabotoge these programs?

If there is one thing I have learned it is that every casino, even some within the same corporation is different. Often you can go even a step further and in some casinos every shift can be different. I can think of 3 Vegas casinos on the same corner that I have played in often enough to say: I play a different style in the MGM, Tropicana and NYNY and even play differently within shifts at these places. Consider this a competition or even a war, the more you know about your opponent, the better your chances of being successful.

ihate17

 

[don]

Track the Big Losers - Not the Big Winners

I've never understood why the casinos are more concerned about the very few players that make money, compared to the much larger number that plop down and give hundreds of dollars to the house.

If I were running a casino, I'd want to know who the big losers are and do whatever I can to keep them playing and coming back. Give them free meals, concert tickets, free t-shirts, or whatever swag necessary to get them back at the tables.

I've seen some players steaming thousands of dollars away at a table with nary a word coming from the dealers or the pit when they finally run out of money and head toward the doors. Giving them a handshake and a pair of free concert tickets might go a long way in getting them to come back and dump more money at my casino, but instead they seem to be wanting to whoop it up and high-five each other that they drained the guy of his bankroll.

I'd be using my surveillance staff to help recognize these players so that I could catch them before they leave and tactfully let them know that they are always welcome back.

 

[daddybo]

I've never understood why the casinos are more concerned about the very few players that make money, compared to the much larger number that plop down and give hundreds of dollars to the house.

If I were running a casino, I'd want to know who the big losers are and do whatever I can to keep them playing and coming back. Give them free meals, concert tickets, free t-shirts, or whatever swag necessary to get them back at the tables.

I've seen some players steaming thousands of dollars away at a table with nary a word coming from the dealers or the pit when they finally run out of money and head toward the doors. Giving them a handshake and a pair of free concert tickets might go a long way in getting them to come back and dump more money at my casino, but instead they seem to be wanting to whoop it up and high-five each other that they drained the guy of his bankroll.

I'd be using my surveillance staff to help recognize these players so that I could catch them before they leave and tactfully let them know that they are always welcome back.

They call 'em Comps... Losers ARE well comped. You really don't want to comfort a real gambler after you've just taken his bankroll. He won't be in a real good mood.

 

[aslan]

Sorry, you need billions of hands to calcalate the HA. How do the casinos ever catch card counters then.

I have friends who are "eyes" at major casinos in Vegas. They seem to have a lot of latitude about how they go about surveiling blackjack. One, for example, will count along with a suspected counter for an entire shoe. If it appears that the player is a counter, she will count a second shoe. If the second shoe has the same result, she will alert the pit. The player will politely be asked to flat bet. The pit may tell them something to the effect that they play too well for the house. If the player refuses to take the pit's advice to flat bet, the dealer will be instructed to deal around the player. They are very much customer-oriented at this casino, and they try to avoid any kind of disagreeable scene. They will invite the player to try them at any of their other games, but at blackjack they must flat bet due to their superior play.

Another "eye" will count a shoe with a suspected counter and will back them off with a single positive result.

I don't know what rule of thumb they might use with single or double deck, but it's generally the same idea. If you consistently begin raising your bet at the key count and above they will catch you.

If you play for a hour or less and quit, they will hardly have time to clock you, especially if you practice some masking maneuver here and there. I imagine you could spread 30X or 40X min in a short session without getting caught. You'd attract attention, but you'd be gone before they could analyze your play. If you attract enough attention, they can easily review the films after the fact and determine if your play was consistent with counting. They will be waiting for your return if you used a card.