Automatic shuffling machines and basic strategy.

[rdorange]

CSM and recycling the cards

I posted this in a previous thread and thought it my apply to this thread also.

I was on a cruise recently and the only BlackJack was with CSM. Normally I refuse to play CSM. The only game I play is the DD pitch. Anyway, since it was a cruise and not a land based casino, I decided to play. Like any BJ player I tried to get any advantage possible...This is what I did.

There was always a full table of seven players. Dealer would load six decks in the machine. The machine would pre-load about a deck (+/-) of cards in the shoe to be delt. I don't know exactly how many, but when the cards got low the dealer would press a button on the machine and it would dispence more cards. The dealer would deal several rounds (sometimes as many as 5 or 6 rounds) before placing the discards back in the machine. The discard tray appeared to have about 3 to 3-1/2 decks in it before the cards were returned to the CSM. Thats not bad penetration considering you are playing at a table with a machine...most land based casinos would return the cards to the machine when one deck was in the discard tray.

I would start to count off the top of the deck as ususal. I would bet and play according to the count. No problem. When the cards from the discard tray were returned to the machine the count would start over as with a new shoe. There was definitely a chance to count and get small advantages.

I only played the $5 min table. Never did spread more than 3 or 4 units. Most of the time in positive counts, the high cards came, as expected. I did not always get them, but they were there (when they were supposed to be.)

Given these conditions, has anyone else ever found the dreaded "machine" to be playable?

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Now that was a responsible post Rdorange. The kind of feedback I was looking for.

You know it's like I bring up a subject and someone wants to paint me as a know it all out to pollute the forum with bad ideas. Geezus I'd never do that!

But about CSM's: Your cruise ship model doesn't seem quite as sophisticated as the one at my local dive. The one over there tends to cycle cards every three or four hands. I've seen it dump a ton of low cards over several hands and then I'd win fairly good. However the game just doesn't feel right so I tend to leave quickly. I'm probably just lucky is all.

 

[rdorange]

csm refeed

If the dealer is placing the cards back in the machine after every few hands, you can gain nothing at all. You can't count and you can't hope to get an advantage even with BS. Bottom line, don't play the csm unless you plan to lose or get real lucky. If you find a dealer who doesn't put the cards back in too often, you can give it a try for short runs and hope you get lucky!

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

If the dealer is placing the cards back in the machine after every few hands, you can gain nothing at all. You can't count and you can't hope to get an advantage even with BS. Bottom line, don't play the csm unless you plan to lose or get real lucky. If you find a dealer who doesn't put the cards back in too often, you can give it a try for short runs and hope you get lucky!

"Lucky is better than good" an old gunfighter once said.

I believe there is luck but i don't rely upon it. Mostly I avoid these CSM's. However if i find one working as yours did I will give it a roll.

Again: The games in this neck of the woods are just plain awful.

 

[shadroch]

You are playing a game that pays even money on Naturals,uses a CSM,and charges you $1 a hand on top of that unless you bet at least $25?

Is that correct? Yet you somehow think you have an advantage?

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

You are playing a game that pays even money on Naturals,uses a CSM,and charges you $1 a hand on top of that unless you bet at least $25?

Is that correct? Yet you somehow think you have an advantage?

You know what you ought to do? Learn some forum decorum manners. That and actually READ a post in it's entirety. You ought to be ashamed of yourself exhibiting a constant stream of negativity. Especially to a new forum member.

A few of my quotes:

"The games in my area suck"

"That place (Oaks card Room) is awful".

"You lose ten percent with a one dollar buy in right off the top"


OK, now as a generous favor to you (and one that you don't really deserve) I will reply to your mean spirited, caustic and egotistical question:

There exists even in a truly bad game a few favorable circumstances in which to leverage a wager. If they allow "Wonging in" on a high count that is. The problem is that it takes too much time to back count and such an effort is better spent at finding more favorable games.

 

[shadroch]

As a new forum member,we have done nothing but try to help you.
The game you are playing sucks. It can't be beat. No count is high enough to ever justify playing a game with the rules you describe. The buy-in and the even money BJs assure that.
I live in an area with horrible BJ. Know what I do? I practice on software and enter AOl tournaments,conserving my BR for when I am able to play in good games.
Trying to justify playing under the conditions you do as either opportunities to practice BS or the only thing to do while waiting for an appointment is laughible.
You will get no good advice from anyone here on these kind of games because the only good advice is to avoid them.Avoid. Not backcount,not slow play,not comp-play.Avoid any game that pays even money.Lets not even get started on $1 a hand buy-ins.
Sorry if you think thats mean-spirted,but its nothing but the truth.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

I wasn't addressing the advice but the nature of the path you took in expressing it.

Also: Where did i ever say I was recommending playing a game with a low profitability?

As for my statement about back counting a truly bad game in order to realize an advantage? Well in a plus thirty running count six decks through the eight deck pack there clearly exists an advantage albeit a temporary one.

That's just math. You'll also note that i described that time being better spent looking for other games.