Backed off at Gold Coast after winning big

[FLASH1296]

Thanx 21forme, #4 is very precise. Read it carefully.

NOTE: Racetracks throughout the USA offer high-payoff "exotic" wagers
for as low as 10 cents — strictly to do an "end-run" around the I.R.S. reg's

If you bet the standard $2 on a "Superfecta" ticket combining four horses
you owe the I.R.S. if the winning ticket's worth > $600

Instead you get a ticket that says you have purchased MANY duplicate tickets
at a cost of TEN CENTS each; even if the sum of that transaction is $1,000+.

That way the winning payoff on a $2 ticket needs to be 20 x $600 or $12,000
for you to be asked for your Social Security number.

The I.R.S. does not consider this "structuring" for the purpose of evading taxes.

A mutuels clerk spying a winning ticket in the hands of a race track
habitue who is reluctant to provide I.D., will fetch you a "Ten Percenter",
who is a person ready to buy the ticket from you, kicking back a bit to
the mutuels clerk netting you 90% of the face value.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

I bet $10 on the Lucky Ladies because the max payout was $10000 for 2 Queens of Hearts and dealer blackjack.

I wonder if they tracked my play throughout all Boyd properties even though I was playing unrated. I won $500 in a night at California 2 days prior and left when I got some heat. I kept hitting Fremont for short sessions and leaving up $100-$200. And I was allowed to play all night at the Spaniard, which is supposed to be the sweatiest place.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I bet $10 on the Lucky Ladies because the max payout was $10000 for 2 Queens of Hearts and dealer blackjack...

I follow your logic, but numerically, the chances of getting that jackpot are so low it doesn't pay to drop your bet. The bulk of your return is going to come from the lower payouts, up to 25:1. Once you hit the strike point on LL your advantage is going up very rapidly.

 

[moo321]

I bet $10 on the Lucky Ladies because the max payout was $10000 for 2 Queens of Hearts and dealer blackjack.

I wonder if they tracked my play throughout all Boyd properties even though I was playing unrated. I won $500 in a night at California 2 days prior and left when I got some heat. I kept hitting Fremont for short sessions and leaving up $100-$200. And I was allowed to play all night at the Spaniard, which is supposed to be the sweatiest place.

It appears that the proximate cause of your backoff was the lucky ladies.

Also, this means that the Gold Coast uses lucky ladies to watch for counters.

And, this means the Gold Coast has at least half-sharp gaming protection on this shift.


Do you mind saying what shift it was and who backed you off? Was there a floor watching you a lot before the backoff came, and may have called upstairs?

 

[Thunder]

Well what's to stop acasino from requesting your id under the false pretense that you look like you could be under 21?

 

[aslan]

Well what's to stop acasino from requesting your id under the false pretense that you look like you could be under 21?

:flame: If they did that, ................ if it was a female pit critter, I'd MARRY her! Whoops! I'm already married, but you know what I mean.

 

[aslan]

Well what's to stop acasino from requesting your id under the false pretense that you look like you could be under 21?

That's a legitimate question. If you're young enough to pass for under 21, you're SOL. But in this case, the casino used the wrong pretext, so my instinct is to nail them. Who knows? Refusal to produce ID in the present scenario might lead to involuntary back-rooming (we can hope anyway) and an accessible entry in the Griffin (or a Griffin-like) book. Shades of CAA. Nothing like a sue-able event. Great EV.

 

[Machinist]

That's a legitimate question. If you're young enough to pass for under 21, you're SOL. But in this case, the casino used the wrong pretext, so my instinct is to nail them. Who knows? Refusal to produce ID in the present scenario might lead to involuntary back-rooming (we can hope anyway) and an accessible entry in the Griffin (or a Griffin-like) book. Shades of CAA. Nothing like a sue-able event. Great EV.

Yep....it's gotta suck to be young in a casino......don't worry one day in the very near future you will wake up and b 50 plus..... until then do what ya can..
Machinist

 

[moo321]

Well what's to stop acasino from requesting your id under the false pretense that you look like you could be under 21?

You can refuse and they ask you to leave. I'm not aware of casinos having any right to detain you on suspicion of being under 21. And if they do have that right, it's not like police powers where they're protected.

A police officer is protected if he had a reason to think you may have committed a crime. A civilian is only protected if you actually committed a crime.

 

[FLASH1296]

Casino security is permitted to detain anyone when there is reason to suspect that a crime has been committed. States differ on whether or not gambling while underage is a crime or not.

Naturally, Native American casinos are free to do whatever they wish; and are only restrained by their concerns re: bad publicity.

 

[moo321]

Casino security is permitted to detain anyone when there is reason to suspect that a crime has been committed.

Well, in a general sense, yes. We all have the right to detain someone if we think a crime is being committed. But we are liable if a crime actually wasn't committed.

So, let them detain you, show the cop your ID, and you have a nice false arrest, even possibly kidnapping suit (if they moved you).

 

[Automatic Monkey]

That's a legitimate question. If you're young enough to pass for under 21, you're SOL. But in this case, the casino used the wrong pretext, so my instinct is to nail them. Who knows? Refusal to produce ID in the present scenario might lead to involuntary back-rooming (we can hope anyway) and an accessible entry in the Griffin (or a Griffin-like) book. Shades of CAA. Nothing like a sue-able event. Great EV.

I agree. They can always pull out the "we thought he was under 21" card to the police no matter how old the person obviously is. But don't try that in a courtroom in front of a judge, because if you or I were detained and the casino told a judge they thought we might be under 21, the judge is going to get very angry at this person trying to make a fool out of him, and that person is going to pay up.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Casino security is permitted to detain anyone when there is reason to suspect that a crime has been committed. States differ on whether or not gambling while underage is a crime or not.

Naturally, Native American casinos are free to do whatever they wish; and are only restrained by their concerns re: bad publicity.

They are constrained by Federal law as it applies to Indian reservations, by any compact they have with the state the casino is physically located in, and by criminal law. If they are casino security guards they have the same right to detain people that a security guard at Walmart does, and that varies from state to state. If they are sworn peace officers working for the tribe, they have powers of arrest just like local police and sheriff's deputies, but they still are required to obey the criminal laws of the state. To what degree they can enforce tribal laws on palefaces and also what they can do once they leave the reservation grounds is still an area of unsettled law.

 

[bigplayer]

For the record, the following is what the W2G form says. #4 is what applies to LL (bolding by me):

The payer must furnish a Form W-2G to you if you
receive:
1. $1,200 or more in gambling winnings from bingo or slot
machines;
2. $1,500 or more in proceeds (the amount of winnings minus
the amount of the wager) from keno;
3. More than $5,000 in winnings (reduced by the wager or
buy-in) from a poker tournament;
4. $600 or more in gambling winnings (except winnings from
bingo, keno, slot machines, and poker tournaments) and the
payout is at least 300 times the amount of the wager; or
5. Any other gambling winnings subject to federal income tax
withholding.
Generally, report all gambling winnings on the “Other income”
line of Form 1040. You can deduct gambling losses as an
itemized deduction, but you cannot deduct more than your
winnings. Keep an accurate record of your winnings and losses,
and be able to prove those amounts with receipts, tickets,
statements, or similar items that you have saved. For additional
information, see Pub. 529, Miscellaneous Deductions, and Pub.
525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income.

Thanks, so you would need a $600 payoff on a $2 wager for a W2-G as the lowest possible configuration for a table games bet. $2,000 on a $10 wager doesn't meet the criteria requiring a W2-G for table games but a $3,000 payoff would.

 

[bjcardcounter]

Thanks, so you would need a $600 payoff on a $2 wager for a W2-G as the lowest possible configuration for a table games bet. $2,000 on a $10 wager doesn't meet the criteria requiring a W2-G for table games but a $3,000 payoff would.

5. Any other gambling winnings subject to federal income tax
withholding.

What the hell is this? A Catch ALL clause?

 

[Thunder]

I agree. They can always pull out the "we thought he was under 21" card to the police no matter how old the person obviously is. But don't try that in a courtroom in front of a judge, because if you or I were detained and the casino told a judge they thought we might be under 21, the judge is going to get very angry at this person trying to make a fool out of him, and that person is going to pay up.

I swear they have ulterior motives most of the time because I still get carded and I haven't been 21 in many years.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

When am I supposed to receive the W2 if they're actually giving one? By January of next year?

 

[aslan]

5. Any other gambling winnings subject to federal income tax
withholding.

What the hell is this? A Catch ALL clause?

It's typical government-ese. It means "I write so many rules and regulations I can never be sure I didn't leave something out, so if I did, you don't have a loophole, sucker!" Have you ever read the Internal Revenue Code? It contains the longest run on sentences in the English language. I've heard it referred to as the "Accountants and Lawyers Full Employment Act."

 

[aslan]

When am I supposed to receive the W2 if they're actually giving one? By January of next year?

:laugh::laugh: They were supposed to give you a copy at the time you won the bet for which they asked you for your ID. This is further proof they misrepresented that they needed your ID for purposes of generating a W2G form. I doubt you'll ever see the form. But if you're afraid they simply forgot to give it to you, but did report it to the IRS, you can write to the casino for a duplicate copy. You should be collecting support to corroborate money you have lost at gambling, which can be used to offset your winnings.

 

[21forme]

When am I supposed to receive the W2 if they're actually giving one? By January of next year?

yes