Bad play by 3rd base player!

[Kasi]

I never play at third base, unless its the only seat open in the whole casino.I'm a first baser, by choice. Different strokes and all that.
The math is the math. Either believe in it or worship The Sacred Flow Of The Cards. Which one will serve you better?

Well there might be some basically meaningless slight advantage in sitting at 3rd if one uses indexes for strategy departure plays? lol.

Probably tougher to see that hole card though you sly dog you lol.

 

[Kasi]

There is nothing more infuriating when you have a max bet out and someone is gobbling up good cards by doing stupid things like splitting 2's vs an 8 and then you lose your double down and the dealer doesn't bust as a result. JMHO

Well, I'm just suggesting it may be possible, under some circumstances, in some games , maybe especially shoes, maybe at or around the count you may have a max bet out, it may be that splitting 2,2 vs 8 is the right play or at least close to it lol. So how mad can you really get when the right, or very close to being right, play is made by anyone lol.

But, I see you're point, if you knew he was a counter, you probably would have left already anyway lol.

 

[creeping panther]

takin

I myself cannot wait for the bash and to meet all of you fine fellows

We shall also look forward to meeting you and kickin ass on the BJ felt!!

CP

 

[tedloc]

Hear it Again

How do you guys get past it? I've read it all works out in the long run, but it seems to only happen to me on my big bets.

Near then end of the shoe, count is +9, I get 3, 3 versus dealer 6. I split get a 7, dbl down and get a ten for 20. Next hand I also get a ten so I stay on my 13.

Gets to 3rd base- Chinese dude, hits his 15 vs the dealers 6, and gets a 6 (now he's all fn happy he has 21), dealer has a King underneath and draws a 5 for the 21.

I know its all suppose to even out, but that money is gone!

Do any of you prefer to play 3rd base because of this?


Signed,
Unhappy in Asia

Seems the doubters show up every so often. Sure the money is gone but....What if first base makes a bad play? How about the guy to the right of third base.? How about the guy, who doesn't hit soft 17? Then again, what about the guy, who doesn't split his 9's or doesn't double after splitting 3's and gets delt a 7 on each one? The result will be, you still will lose. The fact that you're still talking about this is going to drive you crazy. Start keeping a running count of how many times you WIN, after third base makes the wrong play. Read this article by Fred Renzy again.
http://renzey.casinocitytimes.com/article/can-bad-players-screw-up-your-game-1050

 

[jerseyshop101]

I'm not a doubter, just waiting for the curve to go in my favor :laugh:

Just wanting to vent, and I am keeping track of how often bad play helps or hurts me, but only when its bigger bets, not the small or middle-ones.

I know that over the course of thousands of hands it won't matter, but I don't get to go to the casino often, so these big swings can be the difference between me winning or losing.

Count is way up second to last hand of shoe. I bet my max bet of 180,000 won ($144 US), I get A7 versus dealer 6. I double and get a 9 for 17. 3rd base has 95 for 14, announces to the table "he's feeling it" table goes- Please No!, he hits for a J busting. Dealer has Q6 and of course draws a 4. A 720,000 won swing. Which ends in me going home after 4 hours of play at a lossr. The 3rd base American GI did apologize though. I wish I would of just given him the $8 to just stay.

Keeping track: Me 0, 3rd base 3. :laugh:


On a side note:

At the blackjack table in Seoul:
Table rumbles and shakes.......
Gambler: Hey guys what the hell was that? An earthquake?
Dealer: Nah, just the North testing Nuclear weapons.
Gambler: What the !@#$?
Dealer: No big deal, North testing weapons of mass destruction.
Gambler: Ok, Better double up, if wer'e dead we can't spend it anyway.

Gamblers mentality :laugh:

 

[ihate17]

Mi An Hum Ne Da

Or for those who do not know any Korean, "I am sorry".

We will all tell you it is just negative variance, we can easily say that if there are two cards in your senerio, a paint and a 4, would not have third base been your hero if the 4 happened to be in the shoe ahead of the paint. It should really be as simple as that and overall it is.
The only thing third base did to actually hurt you (over time) is kill an extra card in a high count, he would be helping you had he taken an extra card in a low count. One card here or there might be the difference in getting you an extra round when the count is high. Eating cards in a negative count will get that shoe over with faster perhaps.

Question: Where in Korea are you playing and how are the games. I may be going there shortly?

Also, besides the regular casinos are there still things like American VFW Clubs near some of the bases that deal blackjack?

Anya Ga Seo

ihate17

 

[rukus]

Well, I'm just suggesting it may be possible, under some circumstances, in some games , maybe especially shoes, maybe at or around the count you may have a max bet out, it may be that splitting 2,2 vs 8 is the right play or at least close to it lol. So how mad can you really get when the right, or very close to being right, play is made by anyone lol.

i love it! calling him out without actually calling him out! these posts are priceless.

and youre right, with a max bet out, odds are splitting 2,2s vs 8 was the right play (depending on rules, decks, pen, RA vs EV, etc)

 

[Renzey]

i love it! calling him out without actually calling him out! these posts are priceless.

and youre right, with a max bet out, odds are splitting 2,2s vs 8 was the right play (depending on rules, decks, pen, RA vs EV, etc)

Generally speaking, splitting becomes correct at around +5 TC.

 

[rukus]

Generally speaking, splitting becomes correct at around +5 TC.

agreed. thats actually my zen RA index for 2,2 v 8

 

[jerseyshop101]

Or for those who do not know any Korean, "I am sorry".

We will all tell you it is just negative variance, we can easily say that if there are two cards in your senerio, a paint and a 4, would not have third base been your hero if the 4 happened to be in the shoe ahead of the paint. It should really be as simple as that and overall it is.
The only thing third base did to actually hurt you (over time) is kill an extra card in a high count, he would be helping you had he taken an extra card in a low count. One card here or there might be the difference in getting you an extra round when the count is high. Eating cards in a negative count will get that shoe over with faster perhaps.

Question: Where in Korea are you playing and how are the games. I may be going there shortly?

Also, besides the regular casinos are there still things like American VFW Clubs near some of the bases that deal blackjack?

Anya Ga Seo

ihate17

7 luckcasino in Seoul at the Hilton.
Six Deck, Dealer stays on S17, Double anything, Surrender except on dealer ace, Resplitting, DAS
I didn't see any CSM's at all. They did away with the 5,000 won table, so now 10,000 won is the minimum.

No more VFW, I think that ended in 2004.

 

[NDN21]

You could have asked the guy nicely to refund your money to you. After all, his bad play caused you to lose so he owes you, right?

Maybe if you asked him real nice he just might, maybe, perhaps just a slight bit of hope that he understands and pulls out his walle.................oh heck you are gonna have to learn to just deal with it.

 

[MoneyPlays]

I'm not a doubter, just waiting for the curve to go in my favor :laugh:

Just wanting to vent, and I am keeping track of how often bad play helps or hurts me, but only when its bigger bets, not the small or middle-ones.

Plays help or hurt you no matter how much money you have up there. The ploppies don't make their plays based on your bet. And while you're at it, what about when a ploppy miraculously makes the right play and it costs you? Are you keeping track of that too? OK, they make the right play once in a blue moon. :grin:

Or once in a full moon. But you know those ploppies can be dangerous, sort of like werewolves.
Yeah, the Werewolves of Blackjack. Ahwoooooo! :laugh:

Werewolves of Blackjack
To the music of “Werewolves of London” by Warren Zevon

I saw a moron with a basic strategy card in his hand,
Walking the streets of Vegas half alive.
He was looking for a game called Single Deck,
Gonna get a big dish of six-to-five.
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!

You hear ‘em howling around the Blackjack pit,
Whining ‘cause they just can’t win.
Bushels of bankrolls got mutilated late last night,
Werewolves of Blackjack again.
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!

He's the mentally challenged gent, who couldn’t win a cent,
Lately he's been losing at Flamingo.
You better stay away from him,
He’ll split his fives against a ten,
Huh! I wish he’d go play Bingo.
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!

I saw Ms. Ploppy hit on a hard seventeen,
She was a Werewolf of Blackjack.
I saw Mr. Ploppy splitting sevens against the dealer’s ten,
He was a Werewolf of Blackjack.
I saw Mr. Old Ploppy talking about the Sacred Flow of the Cards,
His advice was…worthless! Huh!
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!
Huh! Draw cards!
Ahhwooooo... Werewolves of Blackjack, Ahwooooo!
Ahhwooooo...

 

[MoneyPlays]

Get Over It

...oh heck you are gonna have to learn to just deal with it.

Exactly! Just deal with it. Or......get over it! :grin:

Get Over It
To the music of “Get Over It” by The Eagles

Go to play Blackjack and what do I see?
A whole lotta people sayin’ don't blame me
They point their gnarly little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin’ sorry for themselves
He shoulda hit this, she stole my ace
You lost your big bet and you’re blamin’ third base

get over it, get over it
you don’t know ‘bout the next card, don’t know if it fits
get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you lost all that cash
But you might feel better if the ploppies would crash
The more you think about it, old Frankie was right
Let's kill all the ploppies, kill 'em tonight
You don't do the work, but want to win like a king
But the Blackjack Gods don’t owe you a thing

get over it, get over it
it’s not gettin’ better, and the ploppies won’t quit
get over it, get over it

It's like nails on a chalkboard, every time I hear you speak
You're makin’ the most of your losin’ streak
Call it bad luck, but I call it weak
oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, you drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the pity, you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mouth runnin’ nonstop, puttin’ everybody down
You bitch about bad players and blame ol’ Ploppy Joe
Stop actin’ like an amateur, and take it like a pro

get over it, get over it
all this bitchin’ and moanin’ and pitchin’ a fit
get over it, get over it

get over it, get over it
can’t deal with the ploppies, you might as well quit
get over it, get over it

(get over it)

 

[Kasi]

i love it! calling him out without actually calling him out! these posts are priceless.

and youre right, with a max bet out, odds are splitting 2,2s vs 8 was the right play (depending on rules, decks, pen, RA vs EV, etc)

Well, I wasn't really trying to call anybody out without actually calling whoever out lol. I wish I was that subtle lmao.

Like, chances would be I may have a min bet out anyway, since I enjoy counting, without the betting attached to that concept lol, and also split in that case just because I may know the count is +5. It'd be the right play at that count with any bet out.

So, either he's an idiot who happened to luck into the right play at the right time or he knows exactly what he is doing. Either way, I don't care. I probably already know which he is anyway. I get enough crap as it is making index plays with min bets out in + counts lol. Beginning with 3-card 16's vs 10 lol.

I'm a weirdo oddball who enjoys counting at a table, making a few changes from BS based on the count, because the alternative of just playing mindless BS would be way too boring.

So I cringe a little at the really, trully, absolutely horrible plays but, it's their money to bet any damn way they want just like it's my money to bet any damn way I want.

I don't think I even have a point here lmao.

 

[tribute]

Well, I'm just suggesting it may be possible, under some circumstances, in some games , maybe especially shoes, maybe at or around the count you may have a max bet out, it may be that splitting 2,2 vs 8 is the right play or at least close to it lol. So how mad can you really get when the right, or very close to being right, play is made by anyone lol.

But, I see you're point, if you knew he was a counter, you probably would have left already anyway lol.

Being solely a recreational player I usually sit anywhere but 3rd base to avoid all the gripes and moans when things don't go well. I also am not one who believes in the "sacred flow" of the cards and all the other common myths. However, my most memorable session occured while at third base. I was at a full table placing minimum bets while two other players were betting big. When I had a close decision such as 12 vs. 2 or 16 vs. 10, I would ask the big bettors what they wanted me to do. Most of the time I complied with their wishes. The table got on a hot streak, dealer was busting, and everybody was winning. Of course they gave ME all the credit for their fortunes! They even started pitching green chips to me after the dealer paid out the hands. I was betting $10 and collecting $25 more for my "expertise". I was enjoying watching THEIR big payouts more than my own. This had to be the most fun at third base, ever. Since THEY were putting the serious money down, I felt it was only right for me to seek their advise on the close calls.

 

[tedloc]

Renzy again

How do you guys get past it? I've read it all works out in the long run, but it seems to only happen to me on my big bets.




Read Fred Renzy: http://renzey.casinocitytimes.com/article/can-bad-players-screw-up-your-game-1050
Let's look at hindsight. The cards are delt. All the decisions are made as it gets to third base. Now that you know what the dealer has in the hole and what the next two cards were, you think you got screwed.
Let's pretend you knew the next two cards (you didn't), but did not know their order. Your chances of winning the hand was only 50%. If chinese dude does what he's supposed to and stays, you can sitll lose. If chinese dude hits, you can still win. So before chinese dude made his decision, you only had a 50% chance. What if chinese dude asks you for advice, about his hand. You can tell him, you think he should stay, (He now has 50% chance to win) but you can't tell him how to help your hand. You still only had a 50% chance of winning.

 

[tedloc]

Another Strategy

Being solely a recreational player I usually sit anywhere but 3rd base to avoid all the gripes and moans when things don't go well. I also am not one who believes in the "sacred flow" of the cards and all the other common myths. However, my most memorable session occured while at third base. I was at a full table placing minimum bets while two other players were betting big. When I had a close decision such as 12 vs. 2 or 16 vs. 10, I would ask the big bettors what they wanted me to do. Most of the time I complied with their wishes. The table got on a hot streak, dealer was busting, and everybody was winning. Of course they gave ME all the credit for their fortunes! They even started pitching green chips to me after the dealer paid out the hands. I was betting $10 and collecting $25 more for my "expertise". I was enjoying watching THEIR big payouts more than my own. This had to be the most fun at third base, ever. Since THEY were putting the serious money down, I felt it was only right for me to seek their advise on the close calls.

You might want to try this strategy. I played in the same type of game but the guy at third base, asked the big betters if they wanted to BUY his hand because he was going to hit. (13 v2, 14v 2 and 12 v 5). Since he was only playing $25 and they were playing $100+, they bought it each time. At first I thought the guy was a bad player, then I realized he just wanted out of BAD hand.

 

[techster]

It all evens out!!

Playing at my local casino when an elderly man sat down. Evidently the only rule he remembered about playing bj was stay on 17 or more, because he hit every hand until he had 17 regardless of the dealer's up card. Well guess what? First hand, he had a 13 and dealer showed a 4. He HIT! Entire table groaned--I just smiled. He got a 7 for a 20. Sure enought, dealer turned up 10 for a 14. I told the old man thanks for saving us and received several glares from the table. He played that way for about 1/2 hour, and probably 70% of the time his knucklehead play actually saved the table! Of course, the players kept changing because no one wanted to play with someone who was ruining the cards.

 

[tribute]

You might want to try this strategy. I played in the same type of game but the guy at third base, asked the big betters if they wanted to BUY his hand because he was going to hit. (13 v2, 14v 2 and 12 v 5). Since he was only playing $25 and they were playing $100+, they bought it each time. At first I thought the guy was a bad player, then I realized he just wanted out of BAD hand.

I will remember this and use it. Speaking of buying hands, have you ever offered to buy a players blackjack hand upon their request for even money against the dealer's ace? YOU would immediately offer to pay the player even money on the hand yourself and hope for the 3:2 payout from the dealer. I think Renzey mentioned this in Bluebook II. Could this kind of interaction draw unwanted attention from the pit, marking you as an AP?

 

[tedloc]

Probably...

I will remember this and use it. Speaking of buying hands, have you ever offered to buy a players blackjack hand upon their request for even money against the dealer's ace? YOU would immediately offer to pay the player even money on the hand yourself and hope for the 3:2 payout from the dealer. I think Renzey mentioned this in Bluebook II. Could this kind of interaction draw unwanted attention from the pit, marking you as an AP?

It will undoubtly draw the attention of the pit but I think you should do it everytime someone has a blackjact, then you can use the excuse: If the house thinks it's a good bet, then I do too. After all, you will win 7 out of 10 even if you don't count.