Betting for the dealer

[newyorkbear]

I tip $1 on my first hand. Then another dollar down the road,perhaps$5 in the course of four hours.. I'm careful not to overtip but having worked in the niteclub business for over 15 years,I appreciate the plight of those dependant on tips for a living.

 

[zengrifter]

I haven't been able to play a lot recently (only about twice a month). I'll play for about 8 hours in A.C. but sit out for MUCH of it during bad counts. Betting between $10 and $100.

$10 tip in 2hrs play is 30%+ of EV... $10 over 8hrs play is negligible. I used to tip a lot too... but I got over that bad habit. zg

 

[E-town-guy]

I used to tip a lot too... but I got over that bad habit. zg

hahaha
:laugh:

 

[Brillo]

I've worked as a dealer...

and my advice would be to just do whatever comes natural to you. Some folks are tippers, some people are not.

I tip because I get satisfaction out of it, plus the fact that I usually play in break-in, dive joints (since I am still perfecting my game and don't want to risk too much right now) and I know what the dealers working there make.

If I played at higher-end joints I would be less inclined to tip. Basically, I could live with walking away from a table at Wynn without tipping, but I could not walk away with my winnings from a table at the Western where the dealers make $60-70 a day, including tips, without giving something. That's just me. I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong or that someone who feels differently is right or wrong. Just be yourself.

My personal tipping strategy is to tip the dealer whenever I give the cocktail waitress something when she brings me a drink. Depending on the count, I will either hand in or bet the silver for the dealer. I play this game for the enjoyment and to earn a little extra cash. If I break even but still catch a nice buzz for hitting the night club after my session, I'm happy.

Another good thing about knowing how to deal is that I can contact the temp agency whenever I want to practice. They will send me out on a job and I can practice my counting while I deal to the ploppies. This is how I am going to move up to a Level-2 count. I am going to be paid to perfect it without risking my bankroll beforehand. It also does wonders for my act, if you can keep the count while handling a full table, you've got cover. Drinking and socializing while risking your own money is no longer as much of an issue. Not to mention the invaluable information you glean from working behind the scenes at a place you will later play at.

 

[tedloc]

When tipping really helped

I have been playing blackjack in casino's since 1962. In those days, they didn't have a mirror to check the hole card when they had an Ace or 10 up. If you were tipping the dealer on a regular basis, you might hear something like, "You don't really want to hit that 15 do you". Another technique you might see, was the dealer passing you up to go to the next person.

 

[zengrifter]

and my advice would be to just do whatever comes natural to you. Some folks are tippers, some people are not.

I tip because I get satisfaction out of it, plus the fact that I usually play in break-in, dive joints (since I am still perfecting my game and don't want to risk too much right now) and I know what the dealers working there make.

So many of you aren't getting it! HOW MUCH of your EV do you want to squander to some hapless dealer who will split it 10+ ways?

To clarify - if you are not a posi-EV advantage player, if you play with a neg-EV it DOESN'T MATTER - you are going to lose overall anyway!

If on the other hand you are a posi-EV player, think seriously about how much of your statistical profit you want to throw away. zg

 

[newyorkbear]

That same rational could be applied to a waitress,a bartender,the valet guy,the cocktail waitress or anyone else.
do you ever find yourslf thinking -I could get a really nice dessert if I stiff the waitress,or I can drink this $5 if I don't leave a tip for the bartender.
As someone who worked in a tip dependent environment
for many years, it's really simple;
The good guys tip,cheapskates make excuses.
My Uncle used to have a sign over his bar that read
"Everyone who sits at my bar puts a smile on my face. Some when they come,some when they leave.It's your choice"
If you are so worried about your so-called EV,get yourself a part-time job so you can do the right thing.

 

[zengrifter]

ZG Calling Ken!!

Say Ken, whats your position on tipping dealers, when, how much, etc. zg

 

[Quinc]

It also best to tip when you stick with the same dealers when gambling. one reason for this is after playing with the same dealer for a while now if he beats me by 1-2 with alot of cards on the table he will knock next to my bet as if i pushed instead of lost. i have a female dealer i go and see and she will usaly pay me even on loosing hands and when she does i take half of what she payed me and give it back to her as a tip. so if the dealer is on your side then its a good idea to tip.also by tipping it will send happy thoughts into the dealers shuffling. however i dont tip the asian dealers.. i dont mean to steriotype but they are mean, and when you do tip them its like they dont even care.

 

[LeonShuffle]

I don't know where you're playing but there are plenty of Asian dealers in A.C. and many of them are quite friendly.

 

[matteotm]

I think the tipping system sucks, not to bag out the USA but obviously these casinos can afford to pay their workers well they just choose not to, and whos left to pick up the bill.. the gamers.....see if they can squeeze more money out of them.

In Australia we dont tip for anything at all unless you really want to, but it would have to be very exceptional service to be tipped. the only tips here is in the restaurant business where you might leave a small amount extra or one of those "keep the change type tips".. In Sydney Oz Casino it is actually illegal for dealers to accept any form of tips and it says so on the sign that shows the min/max bets for a table. I think thats how it should be. Dealers should be paid for what they do by the people who benefit from there work (the casinos)

any1 agree?

 

[E-town-guy]

I certainly agree that most casinos are making so much money that it is them who are the disgrace. Hypothetically, say I'm a full-time card counter starting off in my career and making $15-20/hr, while the casino, after costs and expenses, can be making hundreds. So tell me who is the real cheap skate? Why should I, making a small fraction of what they make, feel guilty and pick up the tab. Of course I'm not saying don't tip but after thinking about it and hearing what the Grifter had to say I don't feel guilty to tip nor obliged.

 

[zengrifter]

I certainly agree that most casinos are making so much money that it is them who are the disgrace. Hypothetically, say I'm a full-time card counter starting off in my career and making $15-20/hr, while the casino, after costs and expenses, can be making hundreds. So tell me who is the real cheap skate? Why should I, making a small fraction of what they make, feel guilty and pick up the tab. Of course I'm not saying don't tip but after thinking about it and hearing what the Grifter had to say I don't feel guilty to tip nor obliged.

Thats a serious problem for newbies - they have a winning session, 30u, and toss the dealer $25... MORE THAN THEIR EV! And, then the $25 gets chopped 20 ways.

Personally I have found that if I am pleasant and amusing the dealers don't hold my relative lack of tipping against me. AND in the rare instances where I can really get superior pene I'll loosen up.

I've taken a lot of flack in this thread "If you need your EV so bad that you have to gyp the poor hard-working dealer, find a job, I like to tip, bla bla bla..." that I want to hear Ken's advice on tipping... or Blackwoods.

Below is how I ply the dealer for deep pene with a tip. zg

----------

ZG INTERVIEW EXCERPT -

What are some of the ploys you use to induce the dealers to give you better penetration?

Inducing better penetration is a subtle art and should be attempted only if you’re really confident that you can get away with it without alienating the dealer or having her rat you out to the pit. Such techniques are useless in those casinos that use a notch on the shoe or discard rack to standardize the cut, but many blackjack games still leave room for dealer-discretionary penetration.

One trick I use is borrowed from Ian Anderson’s Burning the Tables in Las Vegas: In double deck games I tell the dealer that “today is my brother’s 29th birthday, so please place the shuffle card 29 cards from the bottom”. In shoe games, “my brother” is 46, so I ask that the card be placed 46 cards from the bottom, “for luck,” I add. I place a toke bet out as I insert the cut card and demonstrate the penetration I desire, and proclaim, “Let’s make some money.” If the dealer balks, I add conspiratorially, “Just get as close as you can.”

Often times all it takes is to ask in an innocent, unabashed way. Occasionally a dealer is only too happy to place the cut card deeper. “Mums the word,” I quip with a wink.

- END EXCERPT -

 

[LeonShuffle]

Saying, "I like to tip" is in no way giving you or anyone flack. As I said before, I'm not tellling anyone they should or should not tip. Just do what you're comfortable with.

Yeah Grif, I know you weren't talking about me (at least I hope not).

 

[zengrifter]

When I'm flush I'm a generous tipper... just not to the dealers! zg:eyepatch:
Ps - I have been known to give dealers (and pit bosses) comp slips!

 

[newyorkbear]

ZG- you are all over the spectrum in this thread.
First you say- Don't tip.Then you imply that you used to tip but got over it. Now you say "my relative lack of tipping",and give an excerpt of how you tip.
Whats up with that?
No one says you should over-tip,which is the bane of
many players,but you seem to be advocating NOT TIPPING,which is plain wrong.
Just as I said earlier,folks are coming up with all sorts of explanations-Casinos should pay more,I make $15 an hour,casinos make thousands,ect,ect.

 

[zengrifter]

I tip dealers very little if at all... In my youth I used to tip them a lot. I feel no discomfort stiffing a dealer even with a strong winning session. I am always cognizant of the value of the tip versus my EV and other trade-offs. "Tipping dealers, when in doubt DON'T!" zg

 

[newyorkbear]

It would be wonderful if casinos,diners,bars,limo companies,ect, paid their workers well enough so that they didn't depend on tips,but they don't so bitching about it is a waste of time.Besides that,they would just find a way to buid the additional cost into the game.

 

[newyorkbear]

I tip dealers very little if at all... In my youth I used to tip them a lot. I feel no discomfort stiffing a dealer even with a strong winning session. I am always cognizant of the value of the tip versus my EV and other trade-offs. "Tipping dealers, when in doubt DON'T!" zg

Do you tip a waitress? bartender? cabdriver?
If so,why? How does $$$ money out of your pocket to them differ?
Not trying to pick a fight,just trying to get into your way of thinking a bit.

 

[zengrifter]

Do you tip a waitress? bartender? cabdriver?
If so,why? How does $$$ money out of your pocket to them differ?
Not trying to pick a fight,just trying to get into your way of thinking a bit.

OK, because when I play blackjack its ALWAYS business, not casual. I understand the sympathy towards tipping dealers - its the right thing to do - BUT eventually if one becomes a bona fide AP tipping is substantially curtailed to dealers. Think of it this way, perhaps - we think of a floor person as a pit "critter" and the casino enviroment is more hostile for us than the civilian customer... so dealers are a form of "critter" also... and as you are aware, its not always correct, advisable, or even appropriate to "feed the critters" in some enviroments. So if I, for example, were to lead a group of novice and neophyte counters on a casino excursion, "stalking the wild shoe", perhaps, I would instruct everyone DON'T FEED THE CRITTERS!! And a few of the group would say "Ahh they're sooo cute and hungry" and feed them anyway. And do you know what they really are? They are contemptous of you and all the customers. If you must tip, tip very little. Save the tips and give to the waitresses and all the others, just not the casino critters! zg