BJ question

[Katweezel]

All three differences in example #2 are for the negative. 8 decks vs 6 decks -.027%, no OBO -.110%, H17 -.217% making game #2 worse by .354% according to the numbers listed in blackjack attack 3.

Running the rules on the casino advantage calculator on Qfit's site yeilds similar but slightly different results. game #1 -.545%, game #2 -.877% for a difference of -.332%

Thanks Dad and Kewlj. (Have a cigar. See Secretariat.)

 

[capone1]

isn't the difference between four and eight decks more like (edit) 0.09% (edit) all things being equal? but i guess your saying if the four deck game allows less pen and the eight deck game more pen then that number becomes effectively smaller?

Something like that yes. It doesn't really matter mathmatically because 52 cards is still 52 cards, you still have the same odds of hitting a picture off the start, it just changes slightly the further you go into the shoe.

And as for penetration, yes, it does matter. I find dealer's tend to block more of the shoe off the more decks are in play vs. less. That's personal experience talking though.

 

[capone1]

slowride, ignore the answer from capone1. He has no clue what he's talking about. Penetration has nothing to do with your question, and his statement that 95% of casinos deal 4-8 decks is equally irrelevant to your theoretical question.

Also, note that if you split and double, you WILL lose everything if the dealer hits out to a 21. A hit-out 21 is not the same as a "blackjack." A "blackjack" (also called a "natural" or "snapper") is a 21 formed from the initial two cards dealt (i.e., an Ace and a 10-value card). As pointed out, in most US casinos (but not all), the dealer will peek right away to see if she has a blackjack, and if she does, she would take your money before you could play out your split.

Further note: if you split AA and get a 10-value card, that does NOT count as a blackjack, because it was created AFTER a split, and a blackjack must be your INITIAL two cards. Same applies if you split TT and get an Ace--that's not a blackjack. (And splitting TT is not recommended.)

Ohhh the irony of I dont know what I'm talking about...you don't either...

"Penetration has nothing to do with your question, and his statement that 95% of casinos deal 4-8 decks is equally irrelevant to your theoretical question" - Actually it DOES matter, the original question was how much the HE changes when the shoe goes up in more decks.

Regarding the you lose money on a BJ...yes, that's correct in the US, but not in Europe where all the casinos I have played have no hole card. Some casinos DO take all of your split and DD bet if the dealer has blackjack, some do not...check with the dealer first before play.

And sometimes you do split TT...only when the count is ridiculously high though.

 

[StandardDeviant]

Main reason for this is the dealer gives les pen with the higher # of decks.

Where I play the dealers seem to cut of between 1.5 and 2 decks whether it's a 6D or an 8D game. So I'm generally getting better pen with the 8D game.

The following may just be restating what QFIT is saying, but I think the answer is that the effect of removal is less when more cards are in the shoe. For example, in a 1D game if we have already seen 4 aces, the chance of a blackjack on the next hand is zero. In a 6D game, we'd have to see 24 aces before the chance of blackjack dropped to zero. Since the effect of removal increases as the number of cards decreases, the volatility of the count increases as the number of cards decreases.

I notice when I play, the fewer decks, the more volatile the count. The more volatile the count, the more chances (per fixed unit of time) to get a high count, when our chances are best.

 

[capone1]

Really, which casinos do you play at? lol

On my experience, I have seen dealer's block off 4 decks on an 8 decker (albeit rare, it does happen). I find dealer's are under more pressure to give better pen with the fewer the decks because more hands per hour played means more profit for the casino (in theory)...that of course depends on their attitude to card counting.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

House edge is not affected by penetration and 1.5 or 2 decks of 6 and 8D is the standard penetration in the what seems to be the majority of US casinos. Penetration is important, not because it decreases the house edge, but because it gives you more opportunity to realize and accurately assess advantageous high counts toward the end of the shoe. A simple example: playing on a strip game with 75% pen, I had max bets out on the last 3 rounds, when the TC was in double-digit territory (which is quite rare). Unfortunately, the TC stayed very high because all those 10s and As stayed behind the cut card. Again, this is not relevant to the HE.

 

[CORed]

Hello fellas, i had 2 elementary questions to ask, since I'm just a recreational player and somewhat new to the trade. 1. I know that the more decks a game has the greater the house advantage, but why? 2. I was reading a book and it said that anytime you dd or split and the dealer gets a blackjack the house only takes your original bet and not your additional bet. Is this a common rule amongst all bj games? I could have sworn i lost my entire bet when i lost to a BJ when I've split or dd. Thanks for the help

The reasons that fewer decks are better for a basic strategy player all relate to "effect of removal".

Higher blackjack frequency: If you first card is an ace, you have removed a non-ten from the shoe. This increases the fraction of tens left in the shoe more with fewer decks. Same applies if your first card is a ten: higher proportion of aces in remaining cards.

Higher win percentage on double downs: For most double down hands, one or both of your starting cards are cards you don't want to receive as your third card. This helps you more with fewer decks.

Higher dealer bust frequency with small card showing. If the dealer is showing a small card, you want him to have a big hole card and receive a big third card. Again, the small card removed helps more with fewer decks.

All of these effects are fairly small, but they add up to a smaller house advantage for fewer decks. Of course, casinos know this, and they tend to offer poorer rules for games with fewer decks. There may still be some s deckers around with S17, DAS, and late surrender, but you won't find very many two deckers with those rules and no single deckers (if you can find 3:2 single deck at all).