Borg going H17?
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Polarbearsolvent
Member
aslan said:
Interesting... I have been noticing that the Borg has been pretty sweaty lately. Seemingly they are being more vigilant, even with cover.
Then again, I have also been moving on to greener pastures and as much as I miss the environment (and the reasonable comps) the Borg is nowhere near the best place to play (for me at least).
aslan
Well-Known Member
I don't play the HL room, which may be sweaty-- I don't know -- but my style of "play all" with convincing cover and patiently waiting for the "long plus counts" seems to slide easily under their radar. I enjoy the play, the conversation, the socializing, and don't mind playing a break/even game until the good times come.Polarbearsolvent said:
Polarbearsolvent
Member
Hmm, interesting. It could be that my spread is a bit aggressive, or some other "factor" that is getting me tagged a bit more.
Although, the experience has given me some insights into a few play styles that (at least at that venue) seem to be surprisingly big red flags. If you are interested in my observations, feel free to toss me a PM (hopefully it can be of some longevity use).
Although, the experience has given me some insights into a few play styles that (at least at that venue) seem to be surprisingly big red flags. If you are interested in my observations, feel free to toss me a PM (hopefully it can be of some longevity use).
WABJ11
Well-Known Member
I would have to agree with Polar that the Borg has been getting sweatier. Never have had a problem there, with "checks play" almost always just getting a nod from the pit.
But on my last trip out there (last week) I played one shoe before the pit came over and started harassing me with comments like "oh why are you making a big bet at the end of the shoe?" Dealer shows an Ace and I take insurance cause its like +10, but he doesn't have it. The pit goes "He should have had it with your system." I got outta there quick. I'm use to things like this happening at Trump and Resorts, def not Borg. Maybe they hired some laid off pit critters from neighboring properties? Who knows?
But on my last trip out there (last week) I played one shoe before the pit came over and started harassing me with comments like "oh why are you making a big bet at the end of the shoe?" Dealer shows an Ace and I take insurance cause its like +10, but he doesn't have it. The pit goes "He should have had it with your system." I got outta there quick. I'm use to things like this happening at Trump and Resorts, def not Borg. Maybe they hired some laid off pit critters from neighboring properties? Who knows?
aslan
Well-Known Member
Once in a while you run into a knowledgeable pit person, even at the Borgata. I played the other day for more than 12 hours, almost consecutively, and had no problem spreading from 1 x 1 or 2 x 1 to 2 x 8 which I find sufficient for my purposes, Of course, I did have the patented Aslan Holistic Invisibility Distribution Engine (HIDE) engaged and working at all times.WABJ11 said:
For insurance, my defense is that "I only take insurance when I have a lot of money out" [which coincidentally is in a plus count]. "A small bet is not worth insuring," I say. [That's my story and I'm sticking to it.]
For large bets at the end of a shoe, I have never heard that one before. You might inquire, "Is there truth to the idea that the good cards don't show up until the end of a shoe?" *humble demeanor, mouth agape, begging for crumbs of wisdom from this mighty and knowledgeable stalwart of the pit*
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aslan
Well-Known Member
I played in three different pits, the two outside the high roller room, and the pit by the cashier. I played at five or more different tables and experienced no heat whatsoever.moo321 said:
I think this is all about one pit person. Also, the pit who asked about the poster's system may have just been fishing for a reaction. I know if I were a pit person and knew a few tells like someone suddenly and dramatically increasing his betting amount, I might say the same thing pretending to be in the know. A pit person might especially be tempted to apply pressure to a young person whom he perceived as inferior to himself.
I used to get heat when I was inexperienced and playing classic, naked bet spreading (1 to 10-15) in plus counts, but that was two or three years ago. I'd be betting three hands of $300 a hand, steaming like a nuclear cooling tower, standing with beads of sweat on my forehead, nervous as a whore in church, and quickly leaving after each one of these episodes. I have become so laid back and easy going since then that I doubt the pit ever gives me a second look unless like the other night, I get two blackjacks at the same time playing 2 x $200. Lucky stiff! But nowadays the pits are so nice and pleasant to me, I almost feel bad about extracting my playing fee, but I did say "almost", didn't I? These ploppy employees do not understand who they are working for. If they did, many of them would resign immediately (or do I just have too much faith in human nature?).
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WABJ11
Well-Known Member
Funny because I used the "all the good cards come at the end of the shoe" line, and I just said "what system?"
Didn't get the pit's name. Older guy, late 40's, dark hair, tan, maybe a mustache not sure. It was late night mid week shift. It was the pit right outside the HL room. I got outta there pretty quick though because I was playing on a card, and he seemed to get ready to camp out at the table as the cut card was just about to come out. I'm fairly certain if I stuck around he would have tried to intimidate me more, or half shoed.
I am in my twenties and had my fair share of brushes with pit's before. They think my youth gives them a license to push me around, but I've been playing since I was 15 so it doesn't bother me. I too have that nonchalant attitude about the whole thing.
Didn't get the pit's name. Older guy, late 40's, dark hair, tan, maybe a mustache not sure. It was late night mid week shift. It was the pit right outside the HL room. I got outta there pretty quick though because I was playing on a card, and he seemed to get ready to camp out at the table as the cut card was just about to come out. I'm fairly certain if I stuck around he would have tried to intimidate me more, or half shoed.
I am in my twenties and had my fair share of brushes with pit's before. They think my youth gives them a license to push me around, but I've been playing since I was 15 so it doesn't bother me. I too have that nonchalant attitude about the whole thing.
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Eh, most dealers at borgata don't even bother calling checks play or purple action.
Yeah, I stand around the table for a while then come in betting 500 bucks, but that's not really all THAT unusual at borgata, and the amount of time I spend at one pit is far too short for them to even remotely have a chance at evaluating the play.
If anyone's willing to take some heat, there's a good way to prevent the H17 tables from spreading.
False Drop.
Buy in big with cash at the H17 pit, play very little or not at all and move on. IF enough people do this the drop goes through the roof, but the hold will remain the same as if just ploppies played.. Result = hold % goes way down and borgata decides the H17 tables suck.
Probably not a good idea to do this repeatedly unless you're already so hot there you can't play there anymore and just want to piss them off. In that case, go buy in for as much cash as you have on you (and you WILL ctr so just take the ctr), go to the cage, cash out, then go back to the table, and just keep doing that until they trespass you. If anyone's actually going to do that, let me know. If I have a game available there at the time I'll bet more then I usually do while they're busy bouncing you
Yeah, I stand around the table for a while then come in betting 500 bucks, but that's not really all THAT unusual at borgata, and the amount of time I spend at one pit is far too short for them to even remotely have a chance at evaluating the play.
If anyone's willing to take some heat, there's a good way to prevent the H17 tables from spreading.
False Drop.
Buy in big with cash at the H17 pit, play very little or not at all and move on. IF enough people do this the drop goes through the roof, but the hold will remain the same as if just ploppies played.. Result = hold % goes way down and borgata decides the H17 tables suck.
Probably not a good idea to do this repeatedly unless you're already so hot there you can't play there anymore and just want to piss them off. In that case, go buy in for as much cash as you have on you (and you WILL ctr so just take the ctr), go to the cage, cash out, then go back to the table, and just keep doing that until they trespass you. If anyone's actually going to do that, let me know. If I have a game available there at the time I'll bet more then I usually do while they're busy bouncing you
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aslan
Well-Known Member
You do have to give the pit credit, they do keep track of black chips. The pit came over to my table and the dealer said, "One is there [pointing to me] and one left," thus causing me thereafter to stuff my pockets with greens instead of blacks to avoid the appearance of a winner.pit15 said:Eh, most dealers at borgata don't even bother calling checks play or purple action.
Yeah, I stand around the table for a while then come in betting 500 bucks, but that's not really all THAT unusual at borgata, and the amount of time I spend at one pit is far too short for them to even remotely have a chance at evaluating the play.
If anyone's willing to take some heat, there's a good way to prevent the H17 tables from spreading.
False Drop.
Buy in big with cash at the H17 pit, play very little or not at all and move on. IF enough people do this the drop goes through the roof, but the hold will remain the same as if just ploppies played.. Result = hold % goes way down and borgata decides the H17 tables suck.
Probably not a good idea to do this repeatedly unless you're already so hot there you can't play there anymore and just want to piss them off. In that case, go buy in for as much cash as you have on you (and you WILL ctr so just take the ctr), go to the cage, cash out, then go back to the table, and just keep doing that until they trespass you. If anyone's actually going to do that, let me know. If I have a game available there at the time I'll bet more then I usually do while they're busy bouncing you
not ratholing black should be a given though. I figured that one out quickly before I started playing black.aslan said:
Borgata is far more liberal with actually paying in black during the course of play then most places though.
Any AP who's played in a casino for any serious amount of time should know they track the big chips. Though they don't do it to prevent ratholing as their primary reason. If they didn't bother tracking purple/orange at the table, then the dealers who do things like steal chips (and there's been TONS of those cases) would be palming off an orange instead of a green, and you can see how that would be a problem. A lot of times if you're betting big the pit watches closely not because they're nervous there's something going on with you, they want to make sure the dealer is paying things right. Most of the time the casino's more worried about their own employees then the players.
aslan
Well-Known Member
You right, they don't do it to keep you from ratholing blacks, but it has the same effect; that is, if you do, they will know it. Employee theft has long been the main concern of surveillance, although years ago, customers had a heyday in cheating the casinos.pit15 said:
aslan
Well-Known Member
I agree. Even in lower limit pits I've noticed an inability to track black chips when players are betting with them frequently. When no one is betting blacks, the only ones that "go out" are the cash ins by players, or payoffs using blacks, both under control of the dealer. I those cases, the pit keeps exact count.pit15 said:
alwayssplitaces
Well-Known Member
A dealer can just rathole 1 green chip an hour and have a wonderful salary, and no one would question why the dealer's table is making only $25 less per hour than the others on average, since that can be chalked up to variance. They'll be caught eventually, but I am sure it goes unnoticed in many casinos every day. Unless they watch the video and figure out exactly how many chips should be in the rack every hand, and look for a discrepancy, they will get away. It's unlikely they'll get caught in the act if they are good at palming the chips.