Brief trip report (LV) and OSN

[KewlJ]

Reading the forum, playing rated gives casinos your identity and this leads to OSN and Biometrica which leads to not being able to play most places. I played rated, got into OSN and its not been the disaster that everyone predicted. Not so far.

So FAR. A while back I told a story of a construction worker that fell from the top floor of a highrise. As he passed the 6th floor a co-worker yelled out "how's it going". His response "so far so good."

Time will tell.

Yes it will. Problem is most of us have seen this movie before.

Except for T3 and SCG, the rest are not open to the possibility that for part timers and recreational players, playing smaller stakes and playing rated is not so terrible.

This is true. For low stakes, part-players, playing rated can have benefits. Problem is....THAT is NOT what you told us you were doing. You told us you were playing full-time or close to full-time to supplement retirement. So you received some advice from full-time players, telling you how to achieve longevity. Advise that you have ignored, continue to ignore and now are blatantly criticizing as wrong, and that we don't know what we are talking about. It's not only insulting, but it is a disservice to other members reading AND quite frankly is the reason some knowledgeable, successful players don't bother offering advice.

If this was all a game to you, some sort of 'experiment' you should have said that at the beginning. But again, THAT is not what you did, you said you were going to attempt to play fulltime or close to fulltime supplementing your retirement, so many here and on Norm's site bend over backwards to help you. I went as far as to list some of the games that I play from my rotation and what kind of heat you can expect at different times. I mean WTF! I took you seriously. Everyone took you seriously.

There is an assumption by some that players cards are strictly to identify card counters and its not true. Players cards are probably for building loyalty, wanting people to want to come to their casino and to fight of the competition and draw people away from local casinos and to places like Las Vegas. It works. Some folks, small time AP's, wannabe card counters and newbies ought to take advantage. I dont think the casinos care enough as the damage to their bottom line is too miniscule. If and when a newbie's BR is high enough to where he/she is playing Green or higher or adopting a slash and burn style, they can start playing anonymously.

"Players cards are for building loyalty" ?? Good lord! This paragraph just proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. Again, like Stealth said on the other forum, I can only hope newer players have the good sense to see that you have no clue what you are talking about. Perhaps that is the silver lining to all this. While you were dishonest about your intent and wasted everyone's time, maybe a couple newer guys will learn from it, because YOU sure haven't!

 

[LC Larry]

Players cards are for data mining. Nothing else!!

 

[Ryemo]

I’ve drafted so many posts that were directed towards Zee in the last week or so, but then I just find myself deleting them in the end and say to myself “ugh, what’s the point?.”

I’ve experimented with player’s cards (real name and assumed name) a lot in the last couple years and I’ve had many updates in the databases myself. I have a lot to say on the subject, but what’s the point? Zee is stubborn as a mule and one step away from being legally retarded.

Stealth was right when he said Zee was the least qualified individual to comment on the subject.

 

[LC Larry]

Also, and I've said this before, absolutely DO NOT use players cards in your own name for machine play in those same casinos you play unrated! You WILL be tracked back to those machines!

 

[BoSox]

Are you willing and open to the possibility that perhaps the days since you played rated and now might be different?

No, I do not think casinos think any differently toward their customers now than they ever have.

Everyone seems to get defensive at my suggestion that at least at the newbie stage, playing rated in local casinos has its benefits.

Really, how come you never talk about some of the drawbacks, and by the way there are plenty? A new player with a limited bankroll starting out goes to his local casino which features all shoe games and heads right for a players card booth because ZeeBabar said so on a board. The player starts playing rated and remembers something in the back of his mind that a Bo Sox said about not parking your ass at a table, and being able to move around and table hop which also sounds good.

Now Zee, there is a huge difference here, when a nickel bettor playing unrated changes tables, normally it is really not much of a big deal, the house and player doing this does not give it much thought. The rated player, on the other hand, has drawn attention by requiring the floor to clock him/her in. Six minutes go by in the first shoe played and the count tanks, and the unrated player does not give it much thought and just moves, the rated player THIS time leaves and joins a fresh shoe two tables down but your card may be in a box " by seat position" near the computer scan machine, or heaven forbid your card has not even been clocked in yet. You get your card back but you will think about it on the next wongout opportunity and the next time you might play through the shoe, and in the last two decks played you lose eight units. Twenty percent of the time you do the same mistake, lunchtime comes and they give you a free meal. BULLSHIT, you more than paid for that meal numbskull.

There is an assumption by some that players cards are strictly to identify card counters and its not true. Players cards are probably for building loyalty, wanting people to want to come to their casino and to fight of the competition and draw people away from local casinos and to places like Las Vegas. It works. Some folks, small time AP's, wannabe card counters and newbies ought to take advantage. I dont think the casinos care enough as the damage to their bottom line is too miniscule.

Often, there is a very fine line between what is the tolerance level of a casino, and what is not. Playing rated may very well be the deciding factor in a shorter longevity career at certain casinos.

 

[KewlJ]

It is this simple:

All of us would love to earn whatever we earn (stakes) AND get all the freebies too.

If you play low limit (and plan to continue): sure play rated, get whatever freebies you can. It adds to EV.

For anyone else and this includes several categories, including those playing low limit but with plans for something else later, you have to make a decision. Do you want the comps and freebies or do you want to try to achieve longevity earning as much as you can (for your level of play), FOR AS LONG AS YOU CAN.

There is no in between or having it both ways as Zee erroneously seems to think. If you are successful and playing anything other than red chip with a small spread, at some point, playing rated will bite you in the ass, and shorten your playing days. So players need to decide what their goals are. If you are looking for free rooms, free vacations and some comped meals...fine. But if you are looking for more than that, like any sort of longevity of optimal return for your level of play, you don't compromise that for a few free rooms, meals and trinkets.

It's about thinking about the future, because this game is about "the long-term"....and THAT is something our friend, (well 21forme's friend), ZeeBaBar has NEVER understood.

Edit: and one other thing. Zee is insinuating that what I am saying is the way things USED TO BE, but that things have changed. Let me tell you something Mr. Zee. This is one of those areas that "things changing" is not to our benefit. This is one of those areas that technology is working against us and it is only going to get worse.

 

[ZeeBabar]

Kewlj, I am not insinuating anything. Because I don't back count or wong out to get to other tables (in the local casinos I play at, there is usually 1 DD game and no more than 2 6 deck games) and I play mostly DD games, I did not think of those newbies who hop around. Moreover, in one casino towns, they may not know a name but you get tracked anyway if you are a regular.

For now, I am just reporting my experience.

I did not lie to you or others. I was a part time player, had played rated and the 3-6 casinos I played at in MS and MO and they knew me by name long before I started playing full-time so there was no question of playing anonymously in those places.

I am trying to play anonymously now (have no regret about playing rated earlier) but have much to learn about handling heat. Over the last year, I have tried to do so more often but the extra heat is affecting my play.

 

[JohnCrover]

Zee you need to work on your insecurities. Do watrv the fuck you want man ur 68 ur a grown ass man. Play rated don't play rated t doesn't matter. Go out in the field and use ur best knowledge on what u think is right and don't come here for reassurance. I have made a lot of money and I didn't listen to anyone and did it my way. I also lost a lot and made mistakes but u learn from them. I still have a really really healthy bankroll. U found the rated works for u well so do it..


Ur older so ur not hitting and running like younger players. Actually once ur name gets heated up just get a fake id and at ur stakes u won't ever really cross the 10k mark so ur fine. Sure it's prob a crime but ur addicted enough to bj u will prob bend thenrules

Getting a fake ID is a crime but a novelty ID isn't. You can get ID's that look totally legit and scan. Just mess up the spelling on the back of the card to make it legal. Check out "Kingoffakes. Come" and if you buy an ID from them let me know if they're legit.

 

[BoSox]

For now, I am just reporting my experience.

If that were true there would be little to no bitching at all. Suddenly you have decided to become a mentor for new players. Under that scenario, you have to be careful what you say because there are so many different variables to consider other than your own situation.

 

[ZeeBabar]

If that were true there would be little to no bitching at all. Suddenly you have decided to become a mentor for new players. Under that scenario, you have to be careful what you say because there are so many different variables to consider other than your own situation.

I guess I fall into that trap. Really, I dont care what pros or newbies think about plating rated, I am simply posting my experience and my opinion on how a person could get started. I dont see it as mentoring.