Bullshit I've read on the internet: Heat and spreads

[FLASH1296]

DeadlyWizard's post is nicely comprehensive and most of it I concur with. However, I feel obliged to comment.

" ... always cap your bets with one or two red chips or one or two green chips (for black chippers). You're bet adjustments won't be as obvious compared to someone who just goes from red to green and it will make you're bets look less precise."

THIS is not a good idea. Dealer resents the extra work created; and the floor-person resents her having to observe the dealer "breaking down" all of your bets; and the Pit Boss resents your slowing down the game.

Obviously, it reduces your profit vis-a-vis downgrading your hands-per-hour !

What draws HEAT in a hurry ? Re-sizing your bets too frequently and / or too radically !

Local ploppies, drunks, degenerates and tourists do not change their bet sizes very often and rarely more than double or halve their bet size,

THAT is what gets you noticed. Think about it for a second, imagining that you are a bored or busy floor-person. You weed out the (very few) player's who present a none-too-subtle clue that they are thinking. How? The clueless players have no need to "jump" their bets or radically "cut back" on their bets but card counters do. Doh'

"Always get you're bet out there before the ploppies - don't ever be the last guy to throw out your bet. This means having the true count ready in you're head after the last card hits the felt."

Absolutely correct ! I try to place my bets immediately, when my hand has busted and I man not seated at first base. It suggests that you are not interested in the dealer's "down card"; ipso facto you cannot be a Card Counter ! L O L

Here is a closely related tip that should be part of your camofl', especially if you sense any heat at all:

When betting 2 hands [in a "pitch game] bet less on your left-most hand; or bet more on the spot that won the last round, proclaiming that that spot is the "lucky" spot ! Looks absurd to everyone ! ... Perfectamundo ! ... L.O.L.

Needless to say, NEVER go from 2 spots to 1 spot after a round where Faces and Aces and bullets have darkened the baize ! Instead reduce the size of your bets. A superior tactic is to begin with 2 spots and stay there as long as your T.C. is reasonable. If the T C "takes a dive" you can continue by betting on just one spot and it looks almost natural. If you lost you can grouse about how you "cannot win" If you lose money, it looks natural. Here is the "missing" part: If you win you can intone some silliness about your having exhausted your limited supply of luck.

 

[Gamblor]

Certainly a lot of good advice from wizard and Flash. I will say one thing about getting your bets out immediately or not, again, good advice from these guys, sometimes I do mix it up, certain bet sizes I get out immediately and certain bet sizes I don't. Keep in mind pit and surveillance really only have a fragmentary view of your bets (unless your a whale or big bettor), so you can create certain impressions of your bets sizes if you wish, i.e., by keeping certain bet sizes out longer on the table than others.

 

[FLASH1296]

gamblor,

I do not comprehend this:

"... so you can create certain impressions of your bets sizes if you wish,
i.e., by keeping certain bet sizes out longer on the table than others."

 

[pit15]

No, don't. Not unless you want to draw the attention of casino security and perhaps the police to yourself.

Drug possession, violence, weapons, self-harm: keep those out of your table act.

IMPLY is the key word here. Doing things like sniffing real hard when you get back. You don't say "well, gotta go blow some lines" or something.

No casino employee is going to question what you been doing.

 

[FLASH1296]

IMPLICATION is a sufficient predicate for CAUSE under the law.

You can have your butt hauled to the local cooler for that.

Eventually, the charges would be dropped.

On a different note ... I actually have a video of some jerk being arrested after attempting to BET a bag of smoke in a casino.

 

[Marlin]

Heat is not usually caused by bet spreads. That is, some floor usually doesn't look over and say 'wow, he's spreading 1 to 8, I'd better call surveillance!" However, much of the literature and many of the posts here advocate this idea.

Just this last weekend we had this happen but not heat from the pit but it came as the dealer started spouting off. A typical young man giving advise to players and pretty jovial fella overall. He starts probing me about playing different versions of blackjack all of which I replied negative too.

So while we worked away at a low states table with a 1 - 8 spread for about an hour the dealer made little comments as to "how did you know that was coming." Luck..... I responded or just shrugged my shoulders. Up 310 units after a couple hours we went to dinner.

So we go to dinner and the steak house don't open for another 30 minutes so we sit down at another table well away from the first in another pit and rake in another 70 units. I look at my watch and I am tired and hungry we are off to finally get a bite. So I tell the wife that was a hell of a day and let's eat and hit the road.

An hour later I was ready to hit the door and the wife was persistent in wanting to play yet another round. So off we go, against my better judgment to try for another round.

Only open seats was with the young dealer again and he is waving us in. After a couple quick hellos, we are off again and with several hoe hum shoes, then the big two arrive. The first one we push it back and forth and end up a touch on the plus side but the bets were max 10 spread while the other two folks at the table just looked on and wondered aloud what was going on with us at the end with three hands of full 10 spread with big hundred unit swings in EV both ways.

Then the very next shoe came and the same scenario unfolded but this time we upped the spread to 1- 15 in green in the later part of that shoe, so three max hands with 15 green spreads. Splits, then split again and double a couple of those down. Won them all, bang, bang, bang.

Up about 300 units and about two rounds left in the shoe and the sun is shinning and the pit could care less...... and then the sh** storm arrives and it wasn't named Irene.

So out of nowhere our once friendly dealer says, "YOU GUYS ARE PROFESSIONALS", I just shake my head in disagreement. So next comes the second blast, "WHAT YOU GUYS JUST GO AROUND TO CASINO'S AND WACK THEM, THEN ON TO THE NEXT ONE?" I finally responded that we are just feeling lucky today with our favorite dealer and smiled. My wife didn't say a peep.

Our young dealer was not buying any of it and he persists, "I see your timing is perfect and you guys are using progressive bet spreads." So dumb founded with such a blatant series of remarks from a dealer that we had been friendly and cordial with, with plenty of EV for himself is blasting us.

Maybe he was just a rookie and didn't know any better or was trying to be cute or just trying to pay us a complement I could not tell, but my a** was up and rolling with the last shelling and my wife's lesson was learned. :whip:

DO NOT OVERSTAY YOUR WELCOME. We overstayed.

Marlin

 

[Automatic Monkey]

IMPLY is the key word here. Doing things like sniffing real hard when you get back. You don't say "well, gotta go blow some lines" or something.

No casino employee is going to question what you been doing.

Don't do it. Remember you have casino staff that is looking for a reason to screw with you. Any excuse to detain you will do. You play right into their hands by suggesting that you might have something illegal in your possession.

Just use alcohol for that kind of act. It's free, it's enjoyable, and if they're the ones who served you the alcohol there isn't too much they can say about it. :toast:

 

[moo321]

Marlin, that dealer was a ploppy. I would have tried to deflect the attention, but if he was persistent, it's time to tell him to STFU.

And I agree about not using cocaine as part of the act. Probably not a good idea.

 

[FrankieT]

Some simple, but effective moves that hold some sway in my opinion:

1) always cap your bets with one or two red chips or one or two green chips (for black chippers). You're bet adjustments won't be as obvious compared to someone who just goes from red to green and it will make you're bets look less precise.

2) If you win or push a hand, collect the money as soon as possible (as soon as the dealer's hands leave the bet). This is so if you have to make a bet adjustment the next round you don't have to make an obvious change of bet.

3) Always get you're bet out there before the ploppies - don't ever be the last guy to throw out your bet. This means having the true count ready in you're head after the last card hits the felt.


4) Don't use a huge bet ramp so you aren't constantly making changes to the bets. 4-6 different bets from min to max.

5) For long sessions, Insure on you're very first min bet insurance hand, and split on you're very first min bet 20 (in which the dealer has a 4 through 6). This will be encased in the dealer's/pit bosses memory for the entire time, so it will not be as unusual when you do it on a high bet. You can do a few other min bet goofy moves (moves that you'd only do on a high count) so it doesn't seem like you only do those moves on high counts; but again, just do it the first time around so it has the maximum impact.

7) Don't use huge stacks of red or green chips when betting (I.E.betting all red on $30 or more bets, or betting all green on $150 or more bets).

8) Going from a high bet at the end of a shoe to min bet at the beginning of another shoe is one of the most obvious counter moves in my opinion; especially if you are going from two hands to one hand.
-Bet the first hand of a session as double min bet on two hands (unless you only play one handed)
-Bet at least double you're minimum bet on the first hand if you ended the previous shoe on a big bet. If you are at one hand min bet the final hand of a shoe, you can stay at one hand one bet the beginning of the next shoe.
-Either always bet on two hands all the time or just bet on two hands on the first hand of the shoe, but go back to one hand when the count dips below 0.

9) Always having a beer in front of you and always make sure to loudly proclaim the type of drink you want to the cocktail waittress. Always act way drunker than you are (slurring speech works good).

10) Talk incessently and try to look at the ploppies even if it's gibberish or boring. Surveillance will see that you are looking at people and talking. If you use a level 2 or greater count this can be difficult. If there's no ploppies at the table, talk to the dealer. K-O or Hi-Lo are great because you can easily count from out of the corner of you're eye.

11) Get emotional about large wins and large losses. Turn it into drama queen type stuff, especially on large bets. On losses, swear a little and throw out the cards in a manner similar to that of an angry brat ; hand pumping ploppies on wins works good. Don't be so excessive that it will piss off the dealer or get you in trouble.

12) Wearing a cowboy hat or hip-hop apparel automatically subtracts 20 IQ points for you in the mind of pits/dealers/and surveillance.

Some additional things that help in my opinion (mostly dealing with concealing wins/losses)

1) Always buy you're chips at the craps table, or hold on to a decent amount of chips from you're last session to use for upcoming sessions.

2) Rat hole large denomination chips when you're winning (only enough for 1 or 2 big bets out tops) - rat hole quickly and when the pit boss isn't looking of course.

3) Shove you're large denomination chips behind you're drink or you're smaller stacks of chips and keep a cap on them- don't be like a good-boy poker player and have them out front for everyone to see.

 

[FrankieT]

I agree with Flash - you shouldn't place odd bets. Obviously you don't want a chronically confused dealer who calls over the pit a because of blackjack pay out errors. You especially don't want a dealer calling over the pit when they are confused on insurance bets. You should just use even bets when capping($30, $40, $60, $80, $90). Game will go a lot quicker overall as well.

 

[aslan]

I had a dealer call loudly out to the pit once when I doubled down on my A7. Really surprised me that this was considered an unusual play. Not long after, floorman comes over and starts taking interest in me; "What do you do for a living?" "Where are you from?"

I've gotten that before, as well. I just keep on counting as I talk to them, and keep on betting max if the count is plus. Never had a problem.

 

[tthree]

I've gotten that before, as well. I just keep on counting as I talk to them, and keep on betting max if the count is plus. Never had a problem.

They are gaging your response to their interest in you. Remaining cool passes the test. Any response that conveys discomfort raises red flags. It could be body language, trouble concentrating on the conversation or any number of other things that indicate discomfort.

 

[Gamblor]

I've gotten that before, as well. I just keep on counting as I talk to them, and keep on betting max if the count is plus. Never had a problem.

This is sometimes the best time to make big bets. Have spread to 20+ on such occassions.

 

[CrazyEddie]

" ... always cap your bets with one or two red chips or one or two green chips (for black chippers). You're bet adjustments won't be as obvious compared to someone who just goes from red to green and it will make you're bets look less precise."

THIS is not a good idea. Dealer resents the extra work created; and the floor-person resents her having to observe the dealer "breaking down" all of your bets; and the Pit Boss resents your slowing down the game.

Now I am supposed to avoid odd bet sizes. What paranoid nonsense. If I want to bet $30 or $35 or $18 I will. Last I looked the casino books all bets from the table minimum to the table maximum.

 

[FLASH1296]

"Crazy Eddie" obviously needs no camouflage or advice as how to comport himself in
order to maximize his profits. He must be either an expert or a "crazy" guy or both !

Hmmmm. Three possibilities! That is two too many for me.

R.O.T.F.L.M.A.O.

:whip:

 

[tthree]

Wow crazy. Flash is just trying to help with longevity. You are free to take or leave his advice. The way you interact with the crew is a major factor. I've seen Flash do his thing. It is very effective. You have to find an act that fits you. I have made some major strides in my own act but I have a ways to go. Mine is not the same as Flash's. It is a work in progress so who nows where it will go.

 

[Eye of the Tiger]

On a different note ... I actually have a video of some jerk being arrested after attempting to BET a bag of smoke in a casino.

Could you upload that video to You Tube so we all could watch it. I am sure we would all get a good laugh out of that one. Please provide us with the link after you have uploaded it.

 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Now I am supposed to avoid odd bet sizes. What paranoid nonsense. If I want to bet $30 or $35 or $18 I will. Last I looked the casino books all bets from the table minimum to the table maximum.

So right you are Crazy Eddie. :laugh:

 

[aslan]

This is sometimes the best time to make big bets. Have spread to 20+ on such occassions.

Agree. When they know that you know they are watching, Why would he pull such a stunt?" they incorrectly muse. They either have to rate you "double smart" (is that even in their vocabulary?), or just another ploppy.

There is also sometimes a dynamic that takes place between the eye and the floor person. Too many false alarms and the floor person begins to look foolish, afraid of his own shadow. He doesn't want the eye tagging him with a reputation for not being able to spot an advantage player. Floor people pride themselves in knowing what's going on... even when they don't. They're caught between not wanting to be hit by a professional or professional team on their watch, and looking foolish and inexperienced by wasting the eye's time on every Tom, Dick, and Harry who raises his bet. That's my take; you may differ.

 

[aslan]

Wow crazy. Flash is just trying to help with longevity. You are free to take or leave his advice. The way you interact with the crew is a major factor. I've seen Flash do his thing. It is very effective. You have to find an act that fits you. I have made some major strides in my own act but I have a ways to go. Mine is not the same as Flash's. It is a work in progress so who nows where it will go.

I sometimes put one dollar chips on my stacks for the purpose of paying tips if I happen to win. It really screws up some of the inexperienced dealers in making payouts, and it often causes the pit person to spend extra time ensuring proper payouts, but all is forgiven because of the tips, and everyone knows that counters rarely give tips. So maybe they mumble to themselves, "I wish this ploppy would hurry up and lose his money; I'm getting tired of this."