Can a shoe be top loaded with tens and aces?

[Victoria]

If they were shorting 10's and aces

Rob

If they were shorting the shoes tens and aces, would my problem then be getting very positive counts, putting max bets out and watching a bunch of 2-9's hit the felt? That does not seem to be what is happening but in this place they could easily do this.
I have never seen a spread of cards. I have seen a card change and it does not lead to player confidence like card changes in Vegas. What happens is a critter brings out 6 decks (perhaps short a few cards) wraped in a rubber band, removes the band and places the cards in the shuffling demon, done. They did this once, a few months ago, just after I had one of those groups of hands we dream about, great counts, big beats, landed up getting splits, doubling on splits and the dealer kept getting stiffs and busting. They put the new cards in play and I played one hand and decided that the feeling in my stomach was saying, time for a break. I have been told that most other Indian Casino's have vegas like procedures for card changes, so why not this place?

Anyway, they apparently can do just about anything they want and I plan to go one more time and if it is the same, I will not return. That may be what they want anyway.

 

[Victoria]

No one

Stealth

No body is watching these casinos in my opinion but that does not mean they are all like the Chumash. You can give the Nevada gaming commission some credit but when it comes right down to it, I give just as much credit to the fact that every casino in Vegas is in competetion with the other casinos. If I was a problem type gambler and in Vegas was in a place that had procedures that made be distrustful, I would just go next door. I understand that the procedures are much better at Indian Casinos in areas of California where there are other casinos nearby. They have to compete for the same customer.
The Chumash has no competetion and no one looking over their shoulder effectively, so if they do want to cheat they can and perhaps do.

 

[Abraham de Moivre]

Danger!

The Procedure of spreading out all the cards, checking BOTH sides of the cards, counting them, and making sure they are all there is done for a reason.

It protects the Casino as well as the Player.

Prevents someone from slipping in marked cards, shorting decks (in the casino or cheating players favor), etc. Maybe you are seeing 10 rich decks. The Pit, Dealer, and other players could be working together milking the game for profit, right under the casinos nose.

Violation of this card handling procedure would send up red flags for me also.

 

[Victoria]

flucuation but

Seeker

I am going with flucuation, at least till my next visit, if there is a next visit. If they want to remove some 5's and 6's it will be handled without letting you know, sorry. The thing is though the shoes began negative but would nearly go to 0 by the end of the average one that I played. Maybe, if this is what is really happening, you bet big the first couple of rounds and wong out.

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Re: Indications of cheating

I could have read the post wrong. I have played shorted decks, and thanks to an understanding about being cheated this way from Uston's and Humble's books, knew when to pitch. Yes, study is in order. If for the most part the are sending the Aces and Faces at you in the first hand so you will not have a count going, by all means change to take advantage of this. Make 100% sure this is not just something you think you see without keeping records of it.

 

[Victoria]

next time

Rob

If I return there and the same thing is happening, I will blindly begin a few shoes with a big bet and adjust from there as an experiement. Then wong out after a few rounds of big cards. Should be an interesting experience but perhaps not profitable. Don't think you can formulate a mathematical system for this though.

 

[eyesfor21]

go inland to saboba.ie.s17 too

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Re: next time

With enough data you could. If you had someone that could get you the tape of all of the tables and see that on average the TC is +2 off the top then you could begin every shoe that way.

 

[Victoria]

We get away with some because;

well you guys discount us as perhaps not mathematical or smart enough to count.
Because some guy probably made the average profile of an advantage player and the first thing listed is male.
Male pit critters want to flirt with us.
Ploppy's tend to want to bet more money to impress us and the pit likes this.

But because we are smart, we never ask what the burn card is but do know a few dealers who flash it on its way to the discard tray. We are paying attention.

Seriously, from what I have experienced and what I have read on boards like this, women do have an advantage in cover, so why not use it.

Beware of the female pit boss!!!

Victoria

 

[Stealth Bomber]

Re: next time

Before we all start running to the Chunkmash casino and start betting chunks of money off the top, we better know pretty well what's putting the good cards at the top or if it's just pure happenstance. Even if the machine shufflers are selectively placing the cards, the variation of the cut should nullify that issue. That is unless most of the people are cutting in the same location of the pack. The only other problem is; that the machines could potentially place all the big cards so they would be spaced throughout the pack, thus not letting the C have much of a skew - or +.

 

[eyesfor21]

c-has no problem

The chumash has no problem and the Mayor has played
there and won for years.
So I doubt cheating,but you can always call the gaming commis
to help,but they usually do nothing.
You can literally count all the tens and faces from start to finish
and see and you must see the burn cards too.

ok.

 

[Stealth Bomber]

Re: c-has no problem

So I doubt cheating,but you can always call the gaming commis
to help,but they usually do nothing.

What Gaming Commission? I thought whom ever is watching the Indian Casinos, is in cahoots with them.

You can literally count all the tens and faces from start to finish
and see and you must see the burn cards too.

Impossible. The only time anyone ever gets to see if all the cards are there is if and when they spread them out deck by deck before the play of new cards commences. Or when they are done with the used cards and the PC checks and arranges them back into the order.

Stealth

 

[Victoria]

spread?? What spread

I am not going to count down all the 10's and aces but as was said the only time you can do this is when they spread the cards and they never spread the cards.
I think it was just a day of negative counts but with no competition and their tables basically busy, they seem to have no need for this basic spreading procedure. The pit just puts a new six deck stack into the machine and that is a change of decks. They might not be cheating but this lack of procedure tells me they can if they want to.

 

[Victoria]

where is saboba.

S17 sounds good. Do they have a DD game also?

 

[eyesfor21]

saboba.-near riverside.

Yes they have dbl deck too.
And yes you can count all the tens and aces
without playing at the commis just keep watch and keep track,
sometimes it is very rough it sure feels like cheating,
we all understand.
try this one....small decent place never crowded,even weekends.

(Dead link: http://www.soboba.net/casino.html)

 

[Victoria]

Perhaps a 2 day trip

Thanks; its about 160 miles from me and if you did not have to get to the airport early these days, I could get to Vegas about as fast but perhaps during a slow work period or a weekend I might do two days there and check it out.
Victoria