Card Counting for the Recreational

[kwality]

Hi,

I am interested in learning how to count cards, but not sure which system to
use. The casinos I would be playing blackjack at use 8 decks in a shoe. I don't
mind taking the time to learn a system properly, but I'm only going to be
playing maybe a couple times a month, so I don't want to get too serious. I
know there's Hi-Lo, Zen, K.O., etc, etc. which should I go with, and how do I do it?

Thanks,
KK

 

[ScottH]

Hi,

I am interested in learning how to count cards, but not sure which system to
use. The casinos I would be playing blackjack at use 8 decks in a shoe. I don't
mind taking the time to learn a system properly, but I'm only going to be
playing maybe a couple times a month, so I don't want to get too serious. I
know there's Hi-Lo, Zen, K.O., etc, etc. which should I go with, and how do I do it?

Thanks,
KK

Get two books and you can decide for yourself. Read Knockout Blackjack and then read Blackbelt in Blackjack. Knockout is the easiest system, and that book will give you a good start on how to count. Blackbelt will go over briefly on many other different systems. After reading those 2 books you should have a better idea of which system is best for you. Good luck!

 

[BJLover]

Hi,

I am interested in learning how to count cards, but not sure which system to
use. The casinos I would be playing blackjack at use 8 decks in a shoe. I don't
mind taking the time to learn a system properly, but I'm only going to be
playing maybe a couple times a month, so I don't want to get too serious. I
know there's Hi-Lo, Zen, K.O., etc, etc. which should I go with, and how do I do it?

Thanks,
KK

Hi There, i went out and bought as many books as i could, KO, blackbelt in blackjack, million dollar blackjack, professional blackjack, theres just so many, i love reading them!!!!!!!
i chose the red seven count to start me off,(much the same as KO,unbalanced single point count system), perfect for ease of use and perfect for my 6 deck games i play, also if your serious about learning, buy CV Blackjack(software),good luck. remember, practice practice,practice.

 

[sagefr0g]

Hi,

I am interested in learning how to count cards, but not sure which system to
use. The casinos I would be playing blackjack at use 8 decks in a shoe. I don't
mind taking the time to learn a system properly, but I'm only going to be
playing maybe a couple times a month, so I don't want to get too serious. I
know there's Hi-Lo, Zen, K.O., etc, etc. which should I go with, and how do I do it?

Thanks,
KK

you might start out with the ace/ten front count. it's a very simple system (better for six decks but it will work for eight decks especially if you back count). the ace/ten front count is described in Fred Renzy's Blackjack BLuebook II. Renzy's book is also great for those who are starting out and need a basic understanding of how to play better blackjack. the ace/ten front count will only give you a very small advantage.
best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[kwality]

Thanks, but...

Hey,

Thanks for your quick replies. What is back counting by the way?

I learnt the KO one roughly, but don't totally understand how to apply it in betting. There's a key point or something for 8 decks which is -6, but the Running count could be -20, and at that point or above you should bet more, or in a one deck game the key is +2. can someone explain that?

Thanks,
KK

 

[ortango]

http://www.dictionaryofgambling.com/gambling_terms/blackjack/b/

you'll find backcounting and other terms here

 

[ScottH]

Hey,

Thanks for your quick replies. What is back counting by the way?

I learnt the KO one roughly, but don't totally understand how to apply it in betting. There's a key point or something for 8 decks which is -6, but the Running count could be -20, and at that point or above you should bet more, or in a one deck game the key is +2. can someone explain that?

Thanks,
KK

Buy the book! It's all explained in detail there. You'll have many more questions other than this one, and if you decide to use that system you'll end up getting the book anyway. You can finish reading the book in one night, it's only about 100 pages.

 

[golfnut101]

book is good investment

like Scott said, youre gonna have so many more questions. The book is excellent, and the system is sound for shoe games. But, you MUST practice.
Their is no magic wand; no 'learn in 15 minutes' system. If it is straight recreational on a very limited basis, then maybe try wizard of odds Ace/5 count. But, you cant go wrong with the KO book. I have had solid results with it. Hate to repeat myself, but, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE !

good luck

 

[kwality]

seems to me...

Hey,

I'd like to know what system is used by the people making decent money doing this. Seems to me that, that would be the system to learn. The other thing is, if I am playing simulation games, and the count is in my favour, Hi-Lo for example, it really doesn't seem to make any difference. I lose as much as I win.

Thanks,
K

 

[sagefr0g]

Hey,

I'd like to know what system is used by the people making decent money doing this. Seems to me that, that would be the system to learn. The other thing is, if I am playing simulation games, and the count is in my favour, Hi-Lo for example, it really doesn't seem to make any difference. I lose as much as I win.

Thanks,
K

i use hi/lo and make decent money.
probably what you are experiencing when you a playing blackjack on your computer is short term results. anything can happen short term. it is in the long run that you should see expected positive results (as long as risk of ruin doesn't get you).

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[kwality]

how much are you betting?

Hey,

How much are you betting, and how much are you making using hi-lo? Are you counting through the whole shoe, or do you stop at a certain point? how long term is "long-term"? The first time I played ever at a casino I started with 100 playing $15 hands, and won $165 on top of the $100, and had no idea what I was doing. The second time, I learnt basic strategy, put down $100 and lost it pretty quick playing $5 hands. Seems if you play small $ you will play more hands, but won't gain very much.

What would you suggest?

Thanks,
K

 

[sagefr0g]

Hey,

How much are you betting, and how much are you making using hi-lo? Are you counting through the whole shoe, or do you stop at a certain point? how long term is "long-term"? The first time I played ever at a casino I started with 100 playing $15 hands, and won $165 on top of the $100, and had no idea what I was doing. The second time, I learnt basic strategy, put down $100 and lost it pretty quick playing $5 hands. Seems if you play small $ you will play more hands, but won't gain very much.

What would you suggest?

Thanks,
K

my bankroll is about six grand.
i bet according to the true count as follows:
tc<-1 0u
tc=0/-1 1u if less two decks dealt 0u if two or more decks dealt(wong out)
tc=1 1u
tc=2 2u
tc=3 4u
tc=4 6u
tc>=5 8u
where u=$5
this is for 6d s17 das lsr nrsa
i use the illustrious 18 and fab four for basic strategy departures.
considering my level of skill and my ev i expect about $22/hr<===(oops gotta edit here $12/hr winrate)
i've been realizing about $37/hr (so i've had a lot of positive fluctuation)
the long run mathematically can expect to kick in (in a manner of speaking) at about thirty thousand hands or so according to my understanding.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[kwality]

my bankroll

Hey,

well, my bankroll is nowhere near 6 grand. I'm going to the casino and am willing to lose $200 max. How should I be playing that....maybe not at all? I could play $5 tables, $15 or $25.

What would you suggest?

Thanks,
K

 

[adt_33]

Well, I'm normally not one to give advice at this site, but...

If you're only willing to lose $200, then you should keep earning money with your day job until you can risk some more. Just think of it as time to perfect your skills. As it's been said before, the casino is different than your house.

 

[kwality]

how much....?

Hey,

so if I'm playing a $5 table, how much should I be willing to lose? If I am playing a $15 table, how much should I be willing to lose?

Thnx,
K

 

[shadroch]

Hey,

so if I'm playing a $5 table, how much should I be willing to lose? If I am playing a $15 table, how much should I be willing to lose?

Thnx,
K

You should be willing and able to lose whatever amount you bring to gamble.
If you have $200 set aside to gamble and can easily afford to lose the money,then thats your bankroll.With $200,you should play at the lowest stake possible.,$5 at a max.
With $200,playing at a $15 table is extremely risky.Lets say you lose 2 hands in a row.Now you are dealt 2 8s against dealers 6.Of course you need to split them,but on the split you get a three. Now you need to double.Same happens on the other 8.Dealer pulls a miracle 21 and you lose all.Three hands into the game and you are down over half your bankroll.
Of course,the opposite may happen and you will obviously win three times as much money if you win a $15 bet than a $5.But you should have about 30-50times your small bet to be properly bankrolled.

 

[kwality]

200 bankroll

Hey,

So if I have $200 to play with, and I'm playing at a $5 table. How much should I expect to win (if I'm winning), and be happy with winning, and willing to leave with that knowing I did well.

Thnx,
K

 

[shadroch]

Theres no simple answer.

If you are playing simple BS,you can expect to LOSE about three cents for every $5 bet you make.At a full table,thats about $1.60 an hour.However,BJ has crazy swings.I've won over $100 several times in the same circumstances and lost even more.But if you play 300 hours under these circumstances,expect to lose $500(give or take a few thousand,either way).
Even using perfect KO,over 500 hours with $5 bets,your neighbor flipping burgers will make more than you.You can expect to win the equivilant of one bet per hour using KO.In this case $5.To make any real money at card counting,you really need to be betting $10-15 small bets and $50plus larger bets,and have a bankroll that supports that type of betting pattern

If you sit at a $5 table,survive a few hours,get a comped lunch and escape with your original $200,you are doing well.Most people don't believe in having exit amounts,but in your case-just pick a number you are happy with.$50 or $100 is just as logical as staying until you are exhausted or break the bank.

 

[ScottH]

Hey,

well, my bankroll is nowhere near 6 grand. I'm going to the casino and am willing to lose $200 max. How should I be playing that....maybe not at all? I could play $5 tables, $15 or $25.

What would you suggest?

Thanks,
K

No matter what you bet you will have a really high chance of busting out. You won't have a very high expected value either. You have to have money to make money.

 

[Knox]

No matter what you bet you will have a really high chance of busting out. You won't have a very high expected value either. You have to have money to make money.

You definitely want to stick with the $5 tables! If you are not counting, just flat bet.