Casino Cheating at Blackjack

[FLASH1296]

W.t.f. ?

So ... Let me see if I am reading your post correctly.

You actually asked the dealer(s) to cut the DD game deeply.

So ... You imagine that NO dealer will bother to tell the Pit Boss that you are requesting something that is contrary to what she is instructed to do, in order to explain their behavior.

You do know that (generally) every dealer's procedures are evaluated by the Eye in the Sky twice a year ?

And ... you are surprised when you are cheated or 86'd ?

 

[ccibball50]

I don't think you understand.

So ... Let me see if I am reading your post correctly.

You actually asked the dealer(s) to cut the DD game deeply.

So ... You imagine that NO dealer will bother to tell the Pit Boss that you are requesting something that is contrary to what she is instructed to do, in order to explain their behavior.

You do know that (generally) every dealer's procedures are evaluated by the Eye in the Sky twice a year ?

And ... you are surprised when you are cheated or 86'd ?

I don't think you understand the situation. I know the dealer well. They have no rules about how deep to cut. I have actually seen the pitboss run out of cards while he was dealing in substitute of a sick dealer. For some reason, the first cut was only about 60% (very very unusual for this casino) I have rarely seen less than 75%. I have told this dealer this now for 6 months. As a matter of fact, they usually ask if you want to continue after the cut card. I would not put my self in this situation if I did not know the dealer and was not confident. The more I win, the more she wins. Actually one pit boss knows that I count cards and has even told me(he is actually a card counter before working at the casino and is now barred) He said he does not care so long as I do not raise my bets too high. Plus I had not played there in a month. The only reason I went back there was because all the other casinos were packed. I employ good camo and I know the eye in the sky did not know I was counting, or at least not until the incident happened in my previous post. I know what I can and can't do and with whom I can and can't do it with.

I know for a fact that they have no rules on how deep to cut the cards. It makes them more money. I play 20+ hrs a week and have never encountered another card counter since I have been there. I average about 10$ an hour currrently. Not big money, but a start to build up my bankroll.

If I really wanted, I could go back and play again.

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

To answew a few other questions I did not address above. The pen was 60% to 75% (this is where she put the cut card). I actually asked her to cut them deep, and she did for a couple of shoes. There was an automatic shuffler as well. Another bit of information, there were 2 sets of 2 decks used. Ex. One set was shuffeling while the others were being played, One blue deck, and one red deck. Now I am pretty sure there were the proper number of cards in the deck because the shuffler will show a red light if there are not enough and will say 103 cards or however many are missing. I have seen this from before on this exact same shuffler.

Okay, this brings a whole new light on the subject. They probably did not "cheat you" in one sense of the word. Tens and/or aces probably did get stuck in the machine and they probably "knew" that that machine has had "problems" in the past. They probably don't want to pay to have it serviced or replaced. Hence, they "knew not to let you see the cards."

But you're probably right about cheating in one sense of the word. If one of those machines does "mess up", then you weren't playing a "fair game" and if they knew that you may not have been playing a fair game and tried to conceal that fact--well, I think that does classify wholly as cheating.

You're correct in your thinking that the actual win/loss was incidental. Theoretically, you could have come out ahead even after playing 7 shoes of 1.25 decks out of 1.92 decks with a TC of -2.1 off the top. The fact that the TC was above +6 or more for five or more DD shoes in a row is EXTREMELY suspicious.

The fact that they wouldn't let you see the cards upon request is "somewhat suspicious." However, once you saw them shut down the table, you should have realized that "you've been had" and should have called the local gaming authority without leaving the table's vicinity until told to over the phone.

But in your defense--"I wasn't there."

 

[ccibball50]

defense

Okay, this brings a whole new light on the subject. They probably did not "cheat you" in one sense of the word. Tens and/or aces probably did get stuck in the machine and they probably "knew" that that machine has had "problems" in the past. They probably don't want to pay to have it serviced or replaced. Hence, they "knew not to let you see the cards."

But you're probably right about cheating in one sense of the word. If one of those machines does "mess up", then you weren't playing a "fair game" and if they knew that you may not have been playing a fair game and tried to conceal that fact--well, I think that does classify wholly as cheating.

You're correct in your thinking that the actual win/loss was incidental. Theoretically, you could have come out ahead even after playing 7 shoes of 1.25 decks out of 1.92 decks with a TC of -2.1 off the top. The fact that the TC was above +6 or more for five or more DD shoes in a row is EXTREMELY suspicious.

The fact that they wouldn't let you see the cards upon request is "somewhat suspicious." However, once you saw them shut down the table, you should have realized that "you've been had" and should have called the local gaming authority without leaving the table's vicinity until told to over the phone.

But in your defense--"I wasn't there."

I never thought a casino would or could cheat, and I have never had this happen to me either. I recently read a book on casino cheating in blackjack just for the fun of it, not even thinking it would really happen. I was shocked and did not know what to do. If I could go back, I would do it all over. You are right, I should have stayed without leaving until the issue was resolved.

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

I never thought a casino would or could cheat, and I have never had this happen to me either. I recently read a book on casino cheating in blackjack just for the fun of it, not even thinking it would really happen. I was shocked and did not know what to do. If I could go back, I would do it all over. You are right, I should have stayed without leaving until the issue was resolved.

I once saw three or four fours and fives get caught in an 8D ASM but the pit crew could not see what happened from their vantage point and no warning light came on. They also were shuffling one color while dealing another like in your example. So, I kept CC'g that shoe with that knowledge. I ended up winning like $1,000 for the "very long" session but then later that night started to get struck with fear about what could have been if it were tens and aces that got caught in the machine "and I was unaware of it."

If a bankroll falls in the forest but no one is around to hear it, does it really make a sound? Answer: No, if a bankroll falls in the forest and no one is near enough to hear it, it does not make a sound. However, it did indeed fall.

So, rest assured, for any one of us on this board who has never "played an unfair game" via ASM or otherwise--they would have probably done the same thing as you whether they admit it or not.

That said, at least now you know that if the TC ends at a very high number for many shoes in a row, something is probably awry.

 

[ccibball50]

Good news out of all of this, I broke even for the night winning at other casinos.

 

[ccibball50]

Okay, this brings a whole new light on the subject. They probably did not "cheat you" in one sense of the word. Tens and/or aces probably did get stuck in the machine and they probably "knew" that that machine has had "problems" in the past. They probably don't want to pay to have it serviced or replaced. Hence, they "knew not to let you see the cards."

But you're probably right about cheating in one sense of the word. If one of those machines does "mess up", then you weren't playing a "fair game" and if they knew that you may not have been playing a fair game and tried to conceal that fact--well, I think that does classify wholly as cheating.

You're correct in your thinking that the actual win/loss was incidental. Theoretically, you could have come out ahead even after playing 7 shoes of 1.25 decks out of 1.92 decks with a TC of -2.1 off the top. The fact that the TC was above +6 or more for five or more DD shoes in a row is EXTREMELY suspicious.

The fact that they wouldn't let you see the cards upon request is "somewhat suspicious." However, once you saw them shut down the table, you should have realized that "you've been had" and should have called the local gaming authority without leaving the table's vicinity until told to over the phone.

But in your defense--"I wasn't there."

This could be true. I have seen the shuffle machine mess up many times. Some times it was so bad that some dealers would quit using it and shuffle by hand.

 

[ihate17]

A shuffle machine that only botched aces and faces?

In my case, the more I hear, the more I think you very well may have been cheated. If a few cards got stuck in the machine to blame the counts you got on the shoes on that, there would have to be blue and red cards stuck and probably all of them would be aces and faces, not likely.

With up to 75% penetration, if aces and faces were replaced by fives and sixes, at some point a third 5 clubs or something like that would definately show up except unless you are writing down all the small cards from off the table or they come up on the same hand, it probably would not be noticed.

This may have been a one day cheat by the casino or a shift manager by himself and the situation may not come up again (till they do it again).
If someone associated with that casino reads this board I would think this method of cheating will not be used by them in the near future.

ihate17

 

[creeping panther]

Cci

In my case, the more I hear, the more I think you very well may have been cheated. If a few cards got stuck in the machine to blame the counts you got on the shoes on that, there would have to be blue and red cards stuck and probably all of them would be aces and faces, not likely.

With up to 75% penetration, if aces and faces were replaced by fives and sixes, at some point a third 5 clubs or something like that would definately show up except unless you are writing down all the small cards from off the table or they come up on the same hand, it probably would not be noticed.

This may have been a one day cheat by the casino or a shift manager by himself and the situation may not come up again (till they do it again).
If someone associated with that casino reads this board I would think this method of cheating will not be used by them in the near future.

ihate17

The fact that he named the casino was an act of Brotherhood to all of his "BJ BRO's", and also showed courage. :1st:

CCI is welcome at the next "BJ BASH" for sure and for certain. :toast:

CP