Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[CIPHER]

That's a hell 0f a quote from a guy who's holding the 'investment'. AND LiquidChips was the ONLY member here who previously stuck up for CIPHER. zg

Ah ZEN,

Let's see what we can do to boost your post count up again.

Cipher

 

[CIPHER]

Wait a minute, weren't you one of Cipher's most enthusiastic supporters a while back? What happened?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you were the guy who said results were not about simulation, but were about constantly having winning sessions. It sounded like you were doing so well with Cipher's software. I'm just curious to how that fell apart.

Oh say it ain't so. Liquid Chips.

Cipher

 

[Liquid Chips]

LChips,was your contract with CIPHER memorialized in writing, in front? Or just email comunications? zg

It was Email.

 

[Liquid Chips]

And now there's a question as to whether or not LIQUID CHIP'S aka Tim Bell, aka B. J._WIZ, aka CATMAN DUDE, aka WESTLAND BOWL's mother had any knowledge of what her son Timmy was doing with her money and that her other son Danny Boy is now upset that he wasn't aware that Timmy had structured an agreement which would bring him 15% interest.

I was always honest with my mother and she knew about it. So did my brother, though he almost choked when he heard what I did.

Oh it get's better. But as I said I'm going to give them (all of them) a couple days to get everything out there.

Cipher

Man, there's the hot air again. Where is "there"?

 

[Liquid Chips]

Wait a minute, weren't you one of Cipher's most enthusiastic supporters a while back? What happened?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you were the guy who said results were not about simulation, but were about constantly having winning sessions. It sounded like you were doing so well with Cipher's software. I'm just curious to how that fell apart.

Well, the Cipher software is crap against greed. Money management wasn't practiced. Worked well but I didn't take any profits. I think I have a spot on my back you can flog.:whip:

 

[CIPHER]

Where's all the hot air coming from?? You told my brother and me that you reported one of his emails and two of mine (the last two emails I wrote to Cipher in the Cipher- The Wizard of BJ post) to our local US District Attorney office last week. Bzzzzzt! Didn't happen- no calls to us. Keep it up....we need some hot air over here on the East Coast.

Oh, I think you might want to review your emails. You're getting lost in your own minutia.

Cipher

 

[CIPHER]

I was always honest with my mother and she knew about it. So did my brother, though he almost choked when he heard what I did.



Man, there's the hot air again. Where is "there"?

The there is there: Quote: "though he almost choked when he heard what I did." nothing like gettin straight from the source.

Cipher

 

[ScottH]

Well, the Cipher software is crap against greed. Money management wasn't practiced. Worked well but I didn't take any profits. I think I have a spot on my back you can flog.:whip:

Did you buy his program and use it yourself, or did you "invest" in Cipher and never get any profits?

Now you know why I was opposing your view on Cipher's software so intensely. At the time it always looks like I'm just trying to be an ass and am attacking the person. Then later you realize that I was just trying to help, and that I was giving good advice.

It's hard to take advice when your way seems to be going so well. Unfortunately, the best way to learn a lesson about things like this is to lose your shirt! That's how I found out and I won't forget it. I just wish I would have had someone telling me how much of an idiot I was BEFORE I did!

So when I attack someone for utilizing a faulty idea, I only have good intentions. And I do it for free!

 

[Liquid Chips]

Did you buy his program and use it yourself, or did you "invest" in Cipher and never get any profits?

I used Cipher's free version of his software, not the newer for-sale version.

Now you know why I was opposing your view on Cipher's software so intensely. At the time it always looks like I'm just trying to be an ass and am attacking the person. Then later you realize that I was just trying to help, and that I was giving good advice.

It's hard to take advice when your way seems to be going so well. Unfortunately, the best way to learn a lesson about things like this is to lose your shirt! That's how I found out and I won't forget it. I just wish I would have had someone telling me how much of an idiot I was BEFORE I did!

So when I attack someone for utilizing a faulty idea, I only have good intentions. And I do it for free!

Well, in the end, the software didn't do me any good. :cry: So you're right.

 

[ScottH]

I used Cipher's free version of his software, not the newer for-sale version.



Well, in the end, the software didn't do me any good. :cry: So you're right.

You said the system worked well, but you didn't get any profits, can you explain that? I'm still a little confused about exactly what happened to turn your opinion on Cipher around.

 

[zengrifter]

Now I'm going to do exactly what I did with the last pile of garbage that came up a couple of months ago. I'm going to give you a couple of days to get everything you want to get out there. But let me give you fair warning, if you're looking for sympathy you'd better check in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

These are the words of wit that I received from your brother via email this morning. "QUOTE DAN BELL the brother of TIM BELL aka LIQUID CHIPS: When will you believe we are men of our word?? This is just the beginning and this is my word."

That coupled with the assistance of the many BELL cousins retired from the F.B.I. and the Secret Service not the least of which is Uncle DONNY BELL of Louisville, Kentucky who has run for Governor on more than one occasion, as he holds a retirement from the F.B.I and the Secret Service and he's helped me clear up matters in the past and you'll be no exception. And then of course there's BRUCE ALEXANDER (retired Secret Service) that will be more than willing to assist.

You're going to need all the help you can muster Danny Boy.

Go deep, really deep.

Have a good one.

Cipher

CIPHER, you are using the same tone of communication with someone who beleived in your scheme as ayou use with those of us who have consistently DEBUNKED CIPHER BJ.

CIPHER, please go ahead and tell us your side of the story - if there's one thing I've learned in life, there is always two (at least) sides to a conflict. zg

 

[CIPHER]

CIPHER, you are using the same tone of communication with someone who beleived in your scheme as ayou use with those of us who have consistently DEBUNKED CIPHER BJ.

CIPHER, please go ahead and tell us your side of the story - if there's one thing I've learned in life, there is always two (at least) sides to a conflict. zg

Zen, I'll be happy to tell my side of this when the time is right . But not unlike yourself, I've also learned that once a volcano starts belching super heated gases the best thing to do is to let it blow and believe me, it's not done blowing yet.

Cipher

 

[Liquid Chips]

You said the system worked well, but you didn't get any profits, can you explain that? I'm still a little confused about exactly what happened to turn your opinion on Cipher around.

There two different things here that I think is getting confused with each other.

One, the Cipher software and
Two, Bruce himself.

The Cipher software.....several times I've taken $200-$500 to over $2,500 using the software. So that is why I say it worked well. BUT poor money management, betting bigger because of my increased bankroll, caused me to lose too much too soon running out of money to place that bigger bet needed to make up for losses before. So in the end...no profits. Got too greeeeeedy. Same ole story you've heard many times. Would it worked if I stayed very conservative? Perhaps, but I'm not interested in testing that right now.

Cipher himself....obviously my posting Cipher-The Wizard of BJ tells that story and has nothing to do with the software working or not working. But my experience with the software did play a part in why (oh, why?) I gave him the $20,000 for investing (cough cough) in his blackjack play. Other than that, I judge the software and Bruce/Cipher himself separately.

 

[Liquid Chips]

Zen, I'll be happy to tell my side of this when the time is right . But not unlike yourself, I've also learned that once a volcano starts belching super heated gases the best thing to do is to let it blow and believe me, it's not done blowing yet.

Cipher

There are no "hidden" things lurking in the closet or deep-seated secrets awaiting to be unveiled by Cipher. Any neutral party can come to my place and see for themselves the emails to and from Cipher. He/she/they can check the email properties to see where each email originated to verify that I didn't make the emails up. Now why would I do nefarious (sp?) stuff to Cipher when he had me by the balls holding my money???

Most likely Cipher needs the infamous "two days" to pore over my Wiz of BJ posting, pick it apart, casting doubts about things that don't matter to discredit the main point of the posting which is that I gave Cipher $20,000 and he's not giving it back. I wear the dunce cap publicly for foolishly trusting him and as warning to others.

 

[ihate17]

A sad story but the first thing that hit me

It is a sad story but the first thing that will always pop into my mind when I see something like this is if something seems to good to be true, it generally will not be true.
15% return per year is a high return and highly possible in many investment areas. 15% per MONTH, sets off alarm bells in my mind. If I had a business plan that was so good, so profitable that I could pay investors 15% per month, there would be banks and investors lining up at my door to loan me the money at a decent rate or wanting to purchase stock in my venture. They would be willing creditors or partners without any promise of 15% per month.

Not forgiving the con man at all but the con only works on someone who has some larceny and greed motivating them. The con man deserves to be put in jail, his customer in cases like this needs to accept some of the blame for his being greedy and accept his loss.

On a personal note. I have invested in a couple of start ups based upon a prospectus of initial stock offerings. These were in a field I knew and understood. In one case my profit was so large after a couple of years that it was beyond this 15% per month, in another case I made a few dollars and bailed out, and in the third case I lost every cent invested. A deal like the one in this thread, I would laugh off as an obvious sceme and not touch.
To good to be true!

ihate17

 

[zengrifter]

There two different things here that I think is getting confused with each other.

One, the Cipher software and
Two, Bruce himself.

The Cipher software.....several times I've taken $200-$500 to over $2,500 using the software. So that is why I say it worked well. BUT poor money management, betting bigger because of my increased bankroll, caused me to lose too much too soon running out of money to place that bigger bet needed to make up for losses before. So in the end...no profits. Got too greeeeeedy.

I see little difference. two sides to the same bad penny. zg

 

[sk8uno]

...

 

[zengrifter]

I just want LChips to see return of principal CIPHER. zg

 

[CIPHER]

"Zen, I'll be happy to tell my side of this when the time is right . But not unlike yourself, I've also learned that once a volcano starts belching super heated gases the best thing to do is to let it blow and believe me, it's not done blowing yet.

Cipher"

Cipher- I have been reading your posts for some time, and quite frankly they are ridiculous. First, you never, ever address the issues. You dance around the allegations and respond to non-existent assertions and "threats". Additionally, you seem to enjoy posting metaphorical language that really serves no purpose. In your quote above, that whole volcano metaphor is absolutely ridiculous. You are dealing with people, not volcanoes. One can pull analogies and adages for any situation. "The early bird catches the worm." "Good things come to those who wait." Which one is it? A more appropriate volcano analogy would be if you considered your responses to be a giant plug that stopped the lava flow. If you did have legitimate excuses for the allegations, then those excuses would stop the flow of "super heated gases," right? The point is, address the issues, and stop beating around the bush. Beating around the bush just makes it seem as though you have no explanation and that everything levied against you is true.

SOMETHING is obviously not right with Cipher. According to the postings on this board, Cipher has failed to comply with his side of a "contract" on multiple occasions. I have not once seen Cipher deny these allegations. Instead of answering the "investor's" questions in a calm, level-headed, and straightforward manner, Cipher appears to string people along with unbelievable excuse after unbelievable excuse. The impression this gives me is that Cipher either (a) is deliberately scamming people and taking their money, OR (b) truly believes his system will work and intends to pay out, but he has lost the money and is unable to pay (wouldn't that be a rarity for a gambler?). If it is (b), his string of nonsensical responses are a great way for him to buy more time trying to win the money back, when in reality he is just digging a deeper hole.

Furthermore, Cipher's implication that anyone from this forum is in "hot water" for "deformation of character" is absurd. First, if Cipher actually had consulted an attorney, he might know that it is "defamation" and not "deformation". Also, he might know that it would be libel, not slander. Additionally, in most cases a plaintiff must prove that a defendant DELIBERATELY misrepresented the plaintiff and/or facts. People restating facts as told to them by involved parties does not constitute libel simply by virtue of those facts making a person look bad. If you do something that makes you look bad, and then someone tells the public about that something, it does not constitute libel.

The idea that Cipher would go to any legal authorities over this is a joke in itself. In case you didn't know, Cipher, investment groups and banks are regulated by an organization called the Securities and Exchange Commission. You can go to their website at http://www.sec.gov and look into it. I am not 100% sure, but I am inclined to think that your little "investment fund" is not legal and therefore you reporting its existence to the authorities is unlikely.

One last point...I like how Cipher asserts that alluding to legal action constitutes a "threat". It may be a threat in the colloquial sense, but certainly not in the legal sense. So big deal? You are such a big man Cipher (figuratively and literally), why do you get so defensive?

See, Cipher? This is how you respond to things that are actually said. Notice how I didn't skirt the actual issues and respond to what I *wished* was the issue? If you are legit, then there will be legit answers for your inability to honor your agreement. If you are a fraud or a gambling addict, then the story will continue as it has.

I'm really surprised to see that you had the wherewithall to post David. I thought the Pawn Shop had gotten all your computers. Your writing is unmistakeable.

Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[Sonny]

The point is, address the issues, and stop beating around the bush. Beating around the bush just makes it seem as though you have no explanation and that everything levied against you is true.

No way, not good ol’ Cipher! According to a post on his website he is always “talking straight and telling it the way it is.” Oh wait, that was the post that he deleted because it was full of incriminating evidence against him. Hmmm.

If you are legit, then there will be legit answers for your inability to honor your agreement. If you are a fraud or a gambling addict, then the story will continue as it has.

The stories have been going on for over a year now with not a single legit answer. I guess we’ll have to default to the latter.

In case you didn't know, Cipher, investment groups and banks are regulated by an organization called the Securities and Exchange Commission…I am inclined to think that your little "investment fund" is not legal and therefore you reporting its existence to the authorities is unlikely.

And then there’s a little group called the IRS, although I’ve heard that they are pretty lenient with tax evasion and money structuring. :laugh:

So Cipher, when does LC get his money back? It's a simple question that doesn't involve volcanoes!

-Sonny-

P.S. - Does anyone else find it ironic that LC’s main reason for trusting Cipher was because of his ability to get online casinos to pay their customers what they were rightfully owed? Perhaps that’s where Cipher learned all of his stalling tactics!