Cipher Warning

[halcyon1234]

For any artifacts of an RNG to result in any discernable patterns in a large-scale casino operation would require monumentally poor programming.

Here's the thing that really bugs me about this. Even if there was some sort of discernable pattern and even if someone had figured it out and even if the casino didn't boot their ass quickly, it still wouldn't work because of latency!

Think about it this way:

Picture a butterfly that flits back and forth seemingly at random. You have a butterfly net. Every time you swing and catch the butterfly, you win a bit of money. Sounds great, except for that whole random flitting thing. You swing whenever you think its best. Sometimes you catch the butterfly. Sometimes you don't. Now along comes someone who has "completely decoded the psyche of the butterfly" and has mapped out the entire movement pattern of the butterfly. Sounds great! Now you always know which moves the butteryfly are going to make, and can swing accordingly.

The only problem is that the butterfly is making thousands of little flits a second. So even if you know when and where the butterfly will go-- you can't react that fast. And even if you could, there's factors beyond your control-- like the wind resistance of the net.

And that is exactly why an "internet pattern" system won't work. Even the most basic random number generator is usually based on the system clock, which is accurate down to milliseconds (or less). So even if you knew that "After dealing A(s) J(h) 5(d) 5(c), the next hand will be a blackjack"-- you couldn't react fast enough to catch that blackjack. And even if you could (say the pattern was "in 5.21 seconds, the hand will be a blackjack"), and had a robot program that would go after the hand-- you can't control the internet! There's latency between your computer and the casino server-- which is unknown and unpredicatable. And there's processing latency at the server between recieving your "deal again" command and actually generating the deal instance. So there's no way to know exactly when to send your "deal again" command in time to catch just the right millisecond that will deal the blackjack hand.

So even if a perfect pattern recognization program existed, that knew every hand that can be dealt and exactly when it would be, there is no way to accurately implement it over the internet.

 

[zengrifter]

For any artifacts of an RNG to result in any discernable patterns in a large-scale casino operation would require monumentally poor programming. But, even if the RNG was completely predicatable, his methodology is nonsense. The patterns he is looking for would not be caused by the worst of RNGs. Also, his statement that different casinos from the same group exhibit different patterns is goofy. Casinos don't run the software.

Well, guess what, Mr. Know-it-all professor - CIPHER System isn't just for RNG/online casino play! It works in live games too! Look -

Posted 1/9/06 @ 07:17 AM
http://www.cipherblackjack.com/showthread.php?t=265 (Archive copy)
cipher
Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 184

The utilization of the CIPHER techniques at land and even river boat facilities have proven to be most effective for me.

I think if you take the time to review the tapes on the site here you'll easily find that I do in fact utilize the CIPHER program as a means of identifying when to go large and when not to go large.

Note: All of the videos that are shown on this site at the present time are what I refer to as low level sessions and that's mainly due to the wager window that is available to the client. Remember there are a great many legit casinos out there and particularly in the European market that have far greater wager windows than $1.00 to $500.00 and my clients are playing those casinos on a daily basis.
​

 

[ScottH]

Well, guess what, Mr. Know-it-all professor - CIPHER System isn't just for RNG/online casino play! It works in live games too! Look -

Posted 1/9/06 @ 07:17 AM
http://www.cipherblackjack.com/showthread.php?t=265 (Archive copy)
cipher
Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 184

The utilization of the CIPHER techniques at land and even river boat facilities have proven to be most effective for me.

I think if you take the time to review the tapes on the site here you'll easily find that I do in fact utilize the CIPHER program as a means of identifying when to go large and when not to go large.

Note: All of the videos that are shown on this site at the present time are what I refer to as low level sessions and that's mainly due to the wager window that is available to the client. Remember there are a great many legit casinos out there and particularly in the European market that have far greater wager windows than $1.00 to $500.00 and my clients are playing those casinos on a daily basis.
​

Wow, I didn't know riverboat casinos used RNG's! I wonder if I can crack the code at my local game... :joker:

 

[zengrifter]

I wonder if I can crack the code at my local game... :joker:

No, you can't because you wouldn't know a switchback from a razorback. keep dreaming JokerBoy! zg

 

[QFIT]

Even the most basic random number generator is usually based on the system clock, which is accurate down to milliseconds (or less).

RNGs are not based on clocks. They are algorithmic. But, there is still a latency problem. If there are 1,000 people using PlayTech, they are all using the same RNG. So even if you could magically predict the RNG sequence, you would be sharing the sequence with 1,000 people. We will also see this architecture for slots and VP. From early on all the slots at Foxwood's were connected to s Stratus computer in the back room to track results on a minute to minute basis. The newer slots are more tightly integrated allowing software selection from the back-end allowing far greater flexibility for the casino.

 

[QFIT]

Well, guess what, Mr. Know-it-all professor - CIPHER System isn't just for RNG/online casino play! It works in live games too! Look -

Indeed it works exactly as well Having dropped the RNG pretense, Cipher is now making the claim of every John Patrick style gambler. He sees "trends" that aren't there.

 

[Brutus]

Doesnt CiPHER have six or seven computers connected up in his lab?
and if they arent for cracking codes, what are they for?

 

[CIPHER]

I'm not going to enter my resume But, as far as RNGs; my first experience programming with RNGs was over 40 years ago and my last yesterday. As far large application construction; during my tenure as a Citibank VP, I ran the technology strategy and architecture area covering 75 businesses in 45 countries. I've also lectured/consulted on software architecture in two dozen countries in North America, South America, Europe and Asia-Pacific.

Of course like the rest of us here; I have a "meaningless little life."

All of this crap and you're still unable to make any sense of two known values. No I take that part about "meaningless" back and let's insert wasted little life instead.

Cipher

 

[CIPHER]

Doesnt CiPHER have six or seven computers connected up in his lab?
and if they arent for cracking codes, what are they for?

Actually in Visalia, there are 9 systems and CIPHER LAB U.K., CIPHER LAB DOWN UNDER and CIPHER LAB UP NORTH have between 12 and 30 systems each. Busy busy.

Cipher

 

[CIPHER]

RNGs are not based on clocks. They are algorithmic. But, there is still a latency problem. If there are 1,000 people using PlayTech, they are all using the same RNG. So even if you could magically predict the RNG sequence, you would be sharing the sequence with 1,000 people. We will also see this architecture for slots and VP. From early on all the slots at Foxwood's were connected to s Stratus computer in the back room to track results on a minute to minute basis. The newer slots are more tightly integrated allowing software selection from the back-end allowing far greater flexibility for the casino.

Are you absolutely out of your over educated mind? You have no idea as to what you're even talking about. Do you?

Cipher

 

[EasyRhino]

There is at least one well-documented case of exploiting a RNG to the point where a pattern could be deduced from previous play:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1998/Jan-10-Sat-1998/news/6745681.html (Archive copy)

However, this programmer was privy to the source code of the RNG for the Keno game in question, which is probably what made it possible.


... and you know, a couple of pages into this thread, I had the idea of forming investor groups to do online bonus-hustling. However, for an individual person, that's not something that really scales up in efficiency with bankroll, due to bonus and table limits. You'd have to set up a whole sweatshop of shills to do it (which is I guess what they do in China).

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Are you absolutely out of your over educated mind? You have no idea as to what you're even talking about. Do you?

Cipher

Honestly now Doug, have you reeled in any suckers from this board, or do you just continue this out of ego and anger?

All too many scammers will continue pumping at a dry well just to prove that they can, or to somehow punish the people there for not being marks. They end up wasting valuable time and giving themselves unneeded exposure that way. Instead, why not fish for suckers where suckers are to be found- on gambling sites instead of advantage play sites?

Ego and unwarranted pride contribute the downfall of most scammers. Your kind of business is nothing to be proud of even if it does pay the bills. So take it elsewhere please.

 

[CIPHER]

Honestly now Doug, have you reeled in any suckers from this board, or do you just continue this out of ego and anger?

All too many scammers will continue pumping at a dry well just to prove that they can, or to somehow punish the people there for not being marks. They end up wasting valuable time and giving themselves unneeded exposure that way. Instead, why not fish for suckers where suckers are to be found- on gambling sites instead of advantage play sites?

Ego and unwarranted pride contribute the downfall of most scammers. Your kind of business is nothing to be proud of even if it does pay the bills. So take it elsewhere please.

Hmm, for some strange reason the name Alan Gold came to mind when I first read this post. No couldn't be right Automatic Monkey? Believe me that makes for an interesting read on Google.

First off, I have no idea who Doug is. Secondly, the only reason any of this even came up again is Sonny's running off at the mouth. Go back and check it out for yourselves. Moreover, I make it a habit to confront anyone who runs their mouths off about me or anything that I represent.

Lastly, I doubt seriously that anyone who has posted in this thread has the wherewith all to make change for a match so as to put up or shut up including Sonny who has been conspicuously absent from posting since I posted this post http://www.cipherblackjack.com/showthread.php?t=265&page=2 (Archive copy) item #4 on that page yesterday on the Gambling Edge, though I know that Sonny visited the Gambling Edge for better than 40 minutes this morning.

Cipher

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Hmm, for some strange reason the name Alan Gold came to mind when I first read this post. No couldn't be right Automatic Monkey? Believe me that makes for an interesting read on Google.

First off, I have no idea who Doug is. Secondly, the only reason any of this even came up again is Sonny's running off at the mouth. Go back and check it out for yourselves. Moreover, I make it a habit to confront anyone who runs their mouths off about me or anything that I represent.

Lastly, I doubt seriously that anyone who has posted in this thread has the wherewith all to make change for a match so as to put up or shut up including Sonny who has been conspicuously absent from posting since I posted this post http://www.cipherblackjack.com/showthread.php?t=265&page=2 (Archive copy) item #4 on that page yesterday on the Gambling Edge, though I know that Sonny visited the Gambling Edge for better than 40 minutes this morning.

Cipher

Look man, my political life has nothing to do with this. I have no reason to provide accurate information to a casino and I never will. Are you also associated with a particular dark force in the RNC, as well as scam gambling software?

 

[RJT]

Cipher,
What the hell does Sonny's IP address have do to with the validity of his posts?
Alan Gold on google? Yeh he's a fiction writer, so what? Exactly what does that have to do with a discussion of your system?
As someone who has been following this discussion, but up till a few days ago held off on getting involved i have yet to see you show any mathematical proof what-so-ever that your system works.
So how about this; post a conclusive mathematical proof that your system works, with all assumptions stated, variables defined and fully worked formula (this means that a screen shot of your program with a high win figure showing isn't enough).
You do this and you'll shut everyone here up far more effectively than by trying to attack the credibility of the posters. That just makes you seem amateurish. If you manage this, you may even gain many loyal supporters. So as you would say - put up or shut up.

RJT.

 

[CIPHER]

Look man, my political life has nothing to do with this. I have no reason to provide accurate information to a casino and I never will. Are you also associated with a particular dark force in the RNC, as well as scam gambling software?

Houston, we have lift off.

Cipher

 

[CIPHER]

Cipher,
What the hell does Sonny's IP address have do to with the validity of his posts?
Alan Gold on google? Yeh he's a fiction writer, so what? Exactly what does that have to do with a discussion of your system?
As someone who has been following this discussion, but up till a few days ago held off on getting involved i have yet to see you show any mathematical proof what-so-ever that your system works.
So how about this; post a conclusive mathematical proof that your system works, with all assumptions stated, variables defined and fully worked formula (this means that a screen shot of your program with a high win figure showing isn't enough).
You do this and you'll shut everyone here up far more effectively than by trying to attack the credibility of the posters. That just makes you seem amateurish. If you manage this, you may even gain many loyal supporters. So as you would say - put up or shut up.

RJT.

Well you can talk math all you want with the likes of QFIT, Elliott Jacobsen and Michael Schackleford but I much prefer videos and screenshots and until such time as you or someone else can show that those types of media are not accurate in every detail that's too bad. Understand?

Cipher

 

[shadroch]

Its early,but this thread is shaping up as a contender for thread of the year.
AM as Alan Gold. Sonny using a suspect IP,Ciphers discovering that his RNG based system also works on non-RNG type games.
Its the best thing since sliced beer.

 

[Sonny]

…the only reason any of this even came up again is Sonny's running off at the mouth.

Yeah, I was “running off at the mouth” (a.k.a. explaining why your claims that the Cipher software will work for live tournaments are false) on your website! But instead of replying to me directly you decided to ban me from your site and start whining about it over here.

Let’s see, you’ve been back for almost an hour and you’ve contributed the following:

“No I take that part about "meaningless" back and let's insert wasted little life instead.”

“Are you absolutely out of your over educated mind? You have no idea as to what you're even talking about. Do you?”

“I doubt seriously that anyone who has posted in this thread has the wherewith all to make change for a match so as to put up or shut up including Sonny...”

Hmm, I think you’re ready for another “time out” mister.

-Sonny-

 

[Sonny]

Well you can talk math all you want with the likes of QFIT, Elliott Jacobsen and Michael Schackleford but I much prefer videos and screenshots and until such time as you or someone else can show that those types of media are not accurate in every detail that's too bad. Understand?

Cipher

Sorry buddy, that’s not how the real world works. It’s not our job to prove your system, it’s yours. You created the silly thing, now the burden of proof is squarely on your shoulders. So far you have not given any reasonable evidence and you have even turned down several challenges to prove your system. You have also refused to offer any information about your system or answer any of the simple questions that have been asked. Frankly, it doesn’t look good for you right now.

-Sonny-