Coattails

[bj bob]

While playing an enjoyable and very profitable session, you know one of those where every hand is working out "by the book" ;BJs are coming out with high bets;all DDs are hitting, dealer's busting and you're ramping your bets to the max...Life is good!!!...for a while. Then you notice that some wise ass ploppy has caught on and has started copying your bets and then the whole table joins the fun. What does a poor AP do at this point? Get up and leave? Start flat betting, or even counter-bet? Has anyone gotten into a situation like this and , if so, how did you handle it?

 

[ScottH]

While playing an enjoyable and very profitable session, you know one of those where every hand is working out "by the book" ;BJs are coming out with high bets;all DDs are hitting, dealer's busting and you're ramping your bets to the max...Life is good!!!...for a while. Then you notice that some wise ass ploppy has caught on and has started copying your bets and then the whole table joins the fun. What does a poor AP do at this point? Get up and leave? Start flat betting, or even counter-bet? Has anyone gotten into a situation like this and , if so, how did you handle it?

This isn't the time to start flat-betting. I would probably just leave the table. Since they are ploppies they probably dont have the BR to play like you are, so they will most likely be overbetting!

 

[sagefr0g]

While playing an enjoyable and very profitable session, you know one of those where every hand is working out "by the book" ;BJs are coming out with high bets;all DDs are hitting, dealer's busting and you're ramping your bets to the max...Life is good!!!...for a while. Then you notice that some wise ass ploppy has caught on and has started copying your bets and then the whole table joins the fun. What does a poor AP do at this point? Get up and leave? Start flat betting, or even counter-bet? Has anyone gotten into a situation like this and , if so, how did you handle it?

haven't been in a situation like that but i believe i'd just keep playing as long as the advantage held. after all you know it wont be long for a disadvantageous shoe is going to present that you'd want to wong out on anyway.
i have been at tables where another counter happened to be sitting. it is un-nerving to be sitting there betting up and down, taking insurance and sitting out hands in unison. i'll leave the table for good on a negative count when that happens.
best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[Canceler]

One that pretty much got it:

One time a gal said to me, whenever you raise your bet, I'm going to raise mine. I just gave her a shrug & a smile.

Close, but not quite:

My min bet is red, and my max bet is in greens. One time a dealer said, you were doing a lot better when you were playing greens.

One time a guy said, you do pretty good when you play two hands.

For both of them I said to myself, well, of course, that's the whole idea!

Actually, I've been running into the opposite thing more. When the count gets high, people drop out for the rest of the shoe. Can't help but love them!

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Assuming this is shoe you are playing, that's another advantage of Wonging around. Even if there's another counter at the table, I'm going to be gone at the next negative count, and he can't get mad at me for not leaving even though he was there first, because I ate up the negative EV hands at the beginning of the shoe just like he did.

This isn't something I'd worry about too much, just be careful not to make it look like you are playing as a team because any casino will react badly to that.

 

[bj bob]

That there is my main worry,

my perceptive primate,
So far I've been able to dodge my way out of those situations by coming up with some goofy one liner like "Well, my birthday's this week and I'm milking my lucky streak. I got the RHYTHM." or "I got hammered for 3 Large here last time so I'm due". The real problem comes when the other idiots start talking about "That guy" next to third base(my favorite spot) in such a loud voice that the PB starts taking notice. Since I'm solely a 1D, DD player, I can't Wong. One time (El Dor. Reno) I had the floor boss eyeing me the rest of the night, even at roulette. Didn't play there the rest of the trip. It's hard enough doing everything right to stay under the radar with aspects under your control, but I guess you can't control other people's human nature.

 

[ScottH]

Since I'm solely a 1D, DD player, I can't Wong.

Why can't you wong single and double deck games?

 

[avs21]

Most SD games I come across Casino rules allow you to jump in, but a lot of dealers will make you sit out until a new deck or ask the people playing if they mind if you jump in.

 

[zengrifter]

Wonging 1D crowded casinos is a legitimate tactic. If you win a large bet and the dealer shuffles you should leave it out for the first round. zg

 

[ScottH]

Most SD games I come across Casino rules allow you to jump in, but a lot of dealers will make you sit out until a new deck or ask the people playing if they mind if you jump in.

Well, you could at least wong out of negative counts without giving up your seat.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I don't understand the problem.

I mean I guess it would be annoying if a non-counter was just copying you, but its not infringing on your play or lessening your advantage is it?

I mean if it annoys you then you can leave but most the time just let the poor guy make some money for once.

 

[zengrifter]

I don't understand the problem.

The problem is that it draws attention to the counter's betting pattern when everyone is raising and lowering their bets in lock-step with you.

Sonny, one afternoon when Fitz still had the R20 2D game there was a family of four Canadians and me and they were letting me bet on their R20 spots... for awhile. They caught on surprisingly quick and pretty soon were not only betting in synch with me, but when my R20 bets would go out so would theirs, with them shouting CHARGE! zg

 

[bj bob]

Amen Zg!

That's my point exactly. It also looks real obvious when everyone is likewise copying your insurance bets, especially when nobody was taking those bets until they "caught on".
The dynamics of 1D make it very difficult to wong back in. Think about what has to happen. The first round, with one-two max. players besides me sets up the "hot count". but remember they have to be low cards, therefore, there might 12+ cards dealt to get to that point. The second round of cards is critical, since you have to ramp your bet accordingly. With the Ro6-7 in mind, there's not too much room left in the deals, so you either have to GO FOR IT or sweat out a "wave" (of other player's copy bets). The math says to milk the pos. count, so I stay until the deck turns. What I'm getting at is that 1D is almost impossible to both out and in-wong.