Counting Systems for Beginners

[SPX]

What counting system would you guys suggest for someone who is just starting to get into counting?

I have been considering KO Rookie, KISS I and Red 7. I am a pretty scatterbrained individual and sometimes have a hard time concentrating and dealing with numbers, so I am willing to sacrifice a little accuracy for ease of use.

I was looking into Speed Count and OPP, but have heard that they aren't really worth the trouble.

I have BJ Blue Book II and was looking over KISS Level I, but have a bit of a bias against the system for what will ultimately seem to be an entirely silly reason to everyone, and that is simply that I can't get over the name. "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Why? KO, Red 7, Zen. . . These all sound cool. But I would probably look to the ground when I said I practiced a system based off the acronym KISS.

Silly, I know. . . So you guys can avoid posts that say things like:

"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

 

[ScottH]

What counting system would you guys suggest for someone who is just starting to get into counting?

I have been considering KO Rookie, KISS I and Red 7. I am a pretty scatterbrained individual and sometimes have a hard time concentrating and dealing with numbers, so I am willing to sacrifice a little accuracy for ease of use.

I was looking into Speed Count and OPP, but have heard that they aren't really worth the trouble.

I have BJ Blue Book II and was looking over KISS Level I, but have a bit of a bias against the system for what will ultimately seem to be an entirely silly reason to everyone, and that is simply that I can't get over the name. "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Why? KO, Red 7, Zen. . . These all sound cool. But I would probably look to the ground when I said I practiced a system based off the acronym KISS.

Silly, I know. . . So you guys can avoid posts that say things like:

"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

Go with KO, but use KO-Preferred instead of KO Rookie, it's not that much harder.

 

[EasyRhino]

Any of those three would be fine. There's a chance that the numbers (or ADHD) may still make you a sad panda, but it's definitely worth a go.

I'd recommend going with KISS because, well, you already have the book. If the idea of half-counting cards by suit turns into a stumbling block in practice, then I'd recommend taking a look at KO. KISS (and Red 7) are a biit more "delicate" in that they are more accurate in measuring advantage at smaller plus counts, but the impact on overall expectation is fairly small.

And skipping Speed Count and OPP is good too.

 

[SPX]

Any of those three would be fine. There's a chance that the numbers (or ADHD) may still make you a sad panda, but it's definitely worth a go.

I'd recommend going with KISS because, well, you already have the book. If the idea of half-counting cards by suit turns into a stumbling block in practice, then I'd recommend taking a look at KO. KISS (and Red 7) are a biit more "delicate" in that they are more accurate in measuring advantage at smaller plus counts, but the impact on overall expectation is fairly small.

And skipping Speed Count and OPP is good too.

Yes, the numbers. . . Whenever I've played with various progression systems (and no, let's please not get into THAT discussion) I have a hard time even keeping up with how many wins or losses I've had. And keeping up with my money? Uh oh. . . I always have to sit out a hand here and there to count my chips to even figure out if I'm up or down (especially with a fast dealer).

But I'd like to give it a shot, if it's really worth it. Going for a blackjack coup one day is always an inspiring thought. . .

 

[EasyRhino]

It's usually worthwhile to not worry about if you're ahead or behind until you leave the casino. Too much other things going on.

If by "blackjack coup", you mean a titanically huge win, you may still not get one of those while counting. First, there are lots of losing sessions, and lots of sessions with only very small wins. But more importantly, players will often bail if a win starts to get "unseemly" compared to what they're betting.

Then again, last year I bumped into a guy at a local joint who was obviously counting, and talking about the trip he won $13,000. He was only betting around $100 or $150 in high counts, and he says he was there for a ridiculous number of hours (18? 28?) Conventional wisdom would say that's overstaying your welcome.

Then again, this guy was still playing at that joint, so what do I know?

 

[SPX]

It's usually worthwhile to not worry about if you're ahead or behind until you leave the casino. Too much other things going on.

If by "blackjack coup", you mean a titanically huge win, you may still not get one of those while counting. First, there are lots of losing sessions, and lots of sessions with only very small wins. But more importantly, players will often bail if a win starts to get "unseemly" compared to what they're betting.

Then again, last year I bumped into a guy at a local joint who was obviously counting, and talking about the trip he won $13,000. He was only betting around $100 or $150 in high counts, and he says he was there for a ridiculous number of hours (18? 28?) Conventional wisdom would say that's overstaying your welcome.

Then again, this guy was still playing at that joint, so what do I know?

Eh, I don't know. . . Maybe something more along the lines of taking 2 or 3 weeks with a $10,000 bankroll and starting in Vegas and slowly working my way to AC, hitting a number of casinos along the way, and seeing what I can do.

Of course, it could take me some time to get that kind of money together. But from what I've heard, if you catch some good cards, it wouldn't be entirely too difficult to double or triple your bankroll in such a situation.

 

[shipman]

Speed count

I learned speed count anad my first visit to a casino I made 850 with only 40 dallors on a 8 deck shoe!! went back again and made 500! So It WORKS PREETY GOOD FOR ME!!

 

[shipman]

sorry about the miss spell!

 

[SPX]

I learned speed count anad my first visit to a casino I made 850 with only 40 dallors on a 8 deck shoe!! went back again and made 500! So It WORKS PREETY GOOD FOR ME!!

Well we both know lucky days come and go. How long have you been using it and how many trips have you made?

Just curious because a lot of things I've read about Speed Count say it's only about 35% as effective as HiLo and that sort of edge is really pretty negligible.

 

[shipman]

Made these two trips just last week at a Indian casino. Ialso took a trip to vegas at the end of April and turned 10 dallors into 400, 60 into 600!!! I learned the system from Frank Scoblete's book Golden touch blackjack revolution! It didn't take too long to learn either!

 

[positiveEV]

Made these two trips just last week at a Indian casino. Ialso took a trip to vegas at the end of April and turned 10 dallors into 400, 60 into 600!!! I learned the system from Frank Scoblete's book Golden touch blackjack revolution! It didn't take too long to learn either!

Here is a little tip about shilling: try not to advertise your product in your first few posts and try not to make it sound too good to be true, everyone will know you are a shill else.

 

[shipman]

Sorry

Didn't know that I was? I'll try not to do it anymore!! P.S Still a good system!!

 

[SPX]

Here is a little tip about shilling: try not to advertise your product in your first few posts and try not to make it sound too good to be true, everyone will know you are a shill else.

That does seem a little ridiculous, but you never know what a run of good luck can do. . .

By the way, any suggestions on a beginner counting system? Looking for the simplest system that will still be effective. . .

 

[shipman]

Luck helps

It's more than luck! I have inproved in my play and I can keep track of the cards alot better!! It works for me and I will use it with nothing but good things happening!! :1st:

 

[ScottH]

It works for me and I will use it with nothing but good things happening!! :1st:

If this is what you hope for you better quit now! Unless people really can make good things happen just by thinking positively...

 

[shipman]

Thanks for the advice!! I will kept that in mind..:1st:

 

[ScottH]

Thanks for the advice!! I will kept that in mind..:1st:

Yeah, I'm just saying that you should be prepared for the other side of variance, negative variance. It can and will happen at some point, so be ready for it when it happens, because I guarantee you it will if you keep playing. It won't be so bad if you keep winning like you have been though...

 

[shipman]

I have been careful as I play! I've been paying attention as I watch the cards and I seem to know when to strike!!

 

[EasyRhino]

I've been paying attention as I watch the cards and I seem to know when to strike!!

Exclamation marks!!!

But seriously, what's the difference between your small bets and your big bets when using speed count? If you walk into a joint with $40, you probably end up betting $40 on some individual hands?

Betting that much, not matter if you're using a nuclear-strength count, is little different from wild-ass gambling. Sometimes you're going to win big, and most of the time you're going to lose it all.

 

[sagefr0g]

I have been careful as I play! I've been paying attention as I watch the cards and I seem to know when to strike!!

good for you shipman. hey you might be a natural. but folks are telling you right about the relative strengths of the counts and fluctuation. you might want to look into some alternatives just to increase your knowledge about the fundamentals.
consider getting cvbj or some equivalent blackjack practice software.
try your methods on it for as many hands as you can muster (shoot for 20,000 , 30,000 or more rounds). then see how your results are. that would give you a better idea of how your doing than a few sessions in a real casino. good practice too.