Crowded casino? Try wonging.

[jimbiggs]

Lately the casinos I've been spending time in have been packed. How can a guy win when you can't even find a seat at a $5 or $10 table. So I've been wonging $15 and $25 tables with four other players at most. I've tried this three times now with mixed results. These are shoe games of course. So when a table starts a new shoe, I'll backcount. If the count goes too far negative, I find another table. If the true count gets up to +2, I'll put a green chip in the square and hope the count keeps climbing. I've been spreading $25 - $150. First time, I won $400 in only four shoes (one hour). Second time, played four hours (mostly trying to get my money back) and lost $1K. Third time, won $200 in two and a half hours. I rarely have money on the table unless the count is +2 or better. It also seems easier to find positive shoes when you're not stuck in a chair. I can easily look around to see if other tables are shuffling or not. I've tried backcounting two tables at the same time, but after a couple of hands I have to just watch the one with the better count.

Interesting things I've noticed. The pit has paid me no attention at all. Maybe with a crowded casino, they're too busy to bother with counters. When I do sit down and my bets go up, I pull out my players card and tell the dealer I had forgotten about it. Hopefully this will have an effect on my comps due to the larger average bets.

Other players have made comments like, "Are you still thinking about it?" "It's probably funny to watch, but this isn't fun." "Are you coming in?" I usually respond with something like, "I'm just watching to see if this dealer knows how to bust or not. I already lost three hundred on that other table."

It's been interesting. Hopefully I'll be able to get back in the black soon. Anyone have any helpful hints.

 

[zengrifter]

Hopefully I'll be able to get back in the black soon. Anyone have any helpful hints.

If you are playing a level-1 count you need to enter at +1..You are ramping your bets too slowly. zg

 

[E-town-guy]

at +1 isn't the house/player edge about even though?

 

[zengrifter]

If you come in at +2, then you should probably hit like this:

+2 25+25
+3 50+50
+4 100+100

 

[counter-fit]

now, wait a minute. i have been reading a lot of posts at this site. i have a basic knowledge of counting, bs, etc.
question:
when backcounting, wouldn't you need a higher advantage if the shoes had six decks and a lower count with two decks?

 

[zengrifter]

now, wait a minute. i have been reading a lot of posts at this site. i have a basic knowledge of counting, bs, etc.
question:
when backcounting, wouldn't you need a higher advantage if the shoes had six decks and a lower count with two decks?

Yes and no. The rules being equal yes... but often times the 6D games have slightly better rules. So you should always calc the bet-ramp on the basis of the particular rule-set... and that why BJ RISK MGR is a good piece of software (among others). zg

 

[counter-fit]

zg,
what is a "bet-ramp"? is that a different term for your bet spread?

 

[bankrollboost]

In Canada where I am I have the same problems with the casinos. To get a seat at any table you have to wait at least 15 minutes. It makes it hard to come in at a good time. You are pretty much just lucky to get in on the table when you can.

 

[Sonny]

zg,
what is a "bet-ramp"? is that a different term for your bet spread?

The bet ramp is the actual TCs where you make your bet changes. The bet spread is simply the ratio of your high bet to you low bet.

For example, you may choose to use a 1:10 bet spread but there are many ways to ramp your bets:

+1 = 1 units
+2 = 2 units
+3 = 4 units
+4 = 8 units
+5 = 10 units

+1 = 1 units
+2 = 2 units
+3 = 4 units
+4 = 6 units
+5 = 8 units
+6 = 10 units

+1 = 1 units
+2 = 2 units
+3 = 4 units
+4 = 4 units x2 hands (two hands of 5.5 would be optimal)
+5 = 5 units x2 hands (two hands of 7.5 would be optimal)

+1 = 2 units
+2 = 4 units
+3 = 8 units
+4 = 10 units

Each will give you a different EV, SD. You could then adjust your unit size to maintain a reasonable ROR. Ideally you should ramp your bets based on your advantage at each TC as ZG mentioned. Betting in proportion to your advantage will maximize your return.

-Sonny-

 

[counter-fit]

where would i go to determine the best bet ramp for a given game?

 

[Sonny]

where would i go to determine the best bet ramp for a given game?

The optimal bet ramp will be based on your advantage at each TC. Your advantage will be based on many factors such as number of decks, rules, penetration, counting system, playing style, TC calculations, and a few others. The best place to get that information is from a simulation program. That would also give you the chance to see how different bet ramps perform.

You could make a general ramp based on the house edge and increment your advantage by 0.5% at each TC. For example, if the house edge is -0.50% off the top, then at a TC of +1 it would be an even game. At a TC of +2 then your advantage would be about +0.5%. This is just a very general estimation, but it is a good start if you don't have (or don't want to buy) any simulation software or Bishop Synder's "Beat The X-Deck" books.

-Sonny-

 

[counter-fit]

thanks, i appreciate that detailed response. it is very helpful.

how much would i need to spend on a simulation program? are there programs that will do a bet ramp simulation and help me with my counting skills too?

 

[Sonny]

There are quite a few simulation/practice software packages out there. Casino Verite is the most popular and the most expensive. Others include Smart Cards ($30) and Blackjack 678 ($40). Those are good places to start, although you will eventually want Casino Verite simulators (CVCX or CVData) if you get serious.

-Sonny-

 

[jetace]

There are quite a few simulation/practice software packages out there. Casino Verite is the most popular and the most expensive. Others include Smart Cards ($30) and Blackjack 678 ($40). Those are good places to start, although you will eventually want Casino Verite simulators (CVCX or CVData) if you get serious.

Speaking of Casino Verite, I've had the program for awhile, but I always have to plug in my own betting ramp. Is there a feature in CV that provides an optimal spread based on the game that anyone is aware of?