Well, at the very least I could get investors with my amazing 98.7% win/loss ratio! :joker:Sonny said:I don't get it. That sounds like -EV to me:
$10*0.987 - $1000*0.013
$9.87 - $13 = -$3.13
EV = -3.13%
-Sonny-
Well, at the very least I could get investors with my amazing 98.7% win/loss ratio! :joker:Sonny said:I don't get it. That sounds like -EV to me:
$10*0.987 - $1000*0.013
$9.87 - $13 = -$3.13
EV = -3.13%
-Sonny-
He didn't ignore us, he was already in. CIPHER was "respected" at those neophyte sites like Casinomeister and Winneronline where they wouldn't know any better. zgsabre said:Many threads dating back to 2004 cleanly debunked all of Cipher's outrageous claims. Liquid Chips chose to ignore these threads. It is simply inaccurate for him to claim that Cipher was a respected member of the online gambling community prior to last year.
I'm surprised that its taken so long to purse a civil action again Cipher.
He ignored the posters at Casinomeister and Winneronline who rebuked Cipher's absurd claims. There were many of them. Saying that Cipher was respected at either CM or Winneronline back 2004 isn't accurate.zengrifter said:He didn't ignore us, he was already in. CIPHER was "respected" at those neophyte sites like Casinomeister and Winneronline where they wouldn't know any better. zg
i think the point Zen is trying to make is at some point Cipher had gained the confidence of a significant number of posters on those sites as i believe Damain (the Union guy) described.sabre said:He ignored the posters at Casinomeister and Winneronline who rebuked Cipher's absurd claims. There were many of them. Saying that Cipher was respected at either CM or Winneronline back 2004 isn't accurate.
Actually I probably didn't do a very good job of making more clear that a "session" was defined as the winning of 10 units using a cancellation system with a 1000 unit roll. So u would win 98.7% of the sessions.Sonny said:I don't get it. That sounds like -EV to me:
$10*0.987 - $1000*0.013
$9.87 - $13 = -$3.13
EV = -3.13%
That’s worse than baccarat, casino war, and several craps bets.
-Sonny-
OH. Well I did a cursory history search and found these sites welcoming the great CIPHER and his system. zgsabre said:He ignored the posters at Casinomeister and Winneronline who rebuked Cipher's absurd claims. There were many of them. Saying that Cipher was respected at either CM or Winneronline back 2004 isn't accurate.
I really don't understand why anyone would think a "system" worked.sagefr0g said:i think the point Zen is trying to make is at some point Cipher had gained the confidence of a significant number of posters on those sites as i believe Damain (the Union guy) described.
Well said.Kasi said:I really don't understand why anyone would think a "system" worked.
It's so silly. Perhaps he played on the "random number generator" card - like he has figured out how to beat it because we all know the random generator is fixed?
All anyone need remember is "all betting sytems are equally worthless". What is so darn hard about that?
And, unless Lanidar or Damian or someone convinces me otherwise, I doubt the sytem comes with a defined set of all-encompassing rules. Just my impression.
I doubt if Liquid will ever receive a dime, the more so since the investment was in an illegal activity. O well let's not go there. I hope he gets some money back despite his lack of judgment.
I doubt if Cypher would have paid even if he had won.
Like supercoolmancool, everything I touch turns to gold!Kasi said:Aside to SCMC - u sure u want ScottH on ur team lol.
I spoke to Damian, on the phone, a couple of times about Ciphers system.Kasi:
And, unless Lanidar or Damian or someone convinces me otherwise, I doubt the sytem comes with a defined set of all-encompassing rules. Just my impression.
Sorry Halcyon I have no idea what NDA is.halcyon1234 said:Hrmm... I wonder. Does Cipher's system come with an NDA?
If not, how about exercising your right of first sale? Post it, for free, for all to see (and analyze and debunk).
The debunking might not stop people from using it-- but at the very least, they won't have to fork any money over to yuknutz to get it. =)
No Kasi, there were no exact set of rules.Kasi:
From ur earlier posts, being on the phone with him while ur playing, etc, I was wondering if there is actually an exact set of rules specified in his system?
Thanks Lanidar - sounds about like how I betLANIDAR said:No Kasi, there were no exact set of rules.
It was a matter of what the previous hands were, how many wins, how many loses, how many wins in a row, how many losses in a row, how much you wagered and won and how much you wagered and lost that would determine the next wager and how much to wager.
I'm sorry but it is very difficult to explain in a post.
There are loose rules regarding betting. But, it doesn't make a difference if the system was bought or given to you.Kasi said:Thanks Lanidar - sounds about like how I bet
At least I guess you're saying people get some loose set of written rules if they purchased? Or maybe u wouldn't know since u didn't purchase it?
Not to guide them...tell them how much to bet.U think he would talk on the phone with all actual buyers to guide them?
Very difficult to explain. And the system does not suggest the next wager.I guess there is some vague system since it is difficult to explain. Which is fine.
Or ur saying the system itself would suggest the next wager for u based on whatever?
It's a fact that some bets are very small and the next one could be very large. Hence, as I mentioned in a former post that you had to be well funded to play.I used to get a kick out of his threads/strands betting 1 cent/hd and then betting $700
I have no idea why he was selling the system. Originally it was $500 now I think it is $1000. I always wondered why Cipher wanted to sell it since he was supposed to be making so much money playing.Maybe he figured if he doubled a buyer's purchase price, they'd be happy and he's out of it?
Not a clue to how many soldI guess I remain amazed at the apparent success of it, although who knows how many he actually sold.
Your welcome.Whatever - not even sure why I'm posting here Thx for sharing.
Don't worry - I was never tempted by it lol. How anyone would be is beyond me but that's neither here or there.LANIDAR said:
There are loose rules regarding betting. But, it doesn't make a difference if the system was bought or given to you.Your welcome.
And, once again, I am NOT promoting the system nor do I recommend using it.
Stay away....VERY far away.
If you should decide to use it....don't. Instead send the money you're going to throw away to me. :laugh:
currently $595 for US residents - or $1100 outside the US.LANIDAR said:
I have no idea why he was selling the system. Originally it was $500 now I think it is $1000. I always wondered why Cipher wanted to sell it since he was supposed to be making so much money playing.
NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement. Something that you sign that says "I promised not to reveal anything I learn from you".LANIDAR said:Sorry Halcyon I have no idea what NDA is.
Excercising my right of first sale? What do you mean?
I'll be more than happy to post what ever you want....I just have to understand what it is.
I understand completely and I do NOT have a NDA.halcyon1234 said:NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement. Something that you sign that says "I promised not to reveal anything I learn from you".
Right of first sale is, basically, the right to resell anything that you have purchased. It's why you can legally sell CDs after you've listen to them. Or sell your car. If you bought it, you own it, you can sell it. Or give it away, or do anything you want.
In other words: Unless he's made you sign something that SPECIFICALLY says you can't give away his system (a product), you are allowed to give it away, freely, to anyone you want. In other words, post it for free everywhere, and there is zero reason for anyone to pay money for it.