Dealer showed me the cards left in the shoe!

[GAGE COUNTY]

While I was playing in a six deck game I was being friendly with a dealer and chatting with him. I was at 3 rd base and probly three other people at the table. At the end of one shoe he pulled out the remaining card that hadnt been played yet, turned them over as he went to put them in the discard tray, and fanned them out to show only me that three of the next four cards were aces. I didnt really know how to interpret this as no ones ever done it before. I'm also not sure how he knew there were that many aces left or if he just looked for his own sake and when he saw it showed me as well???
No one else noticed what he did. Is there a way for me to use this info either by tracking these aces after they come out of the shuffle machine or by looking for more helpful showings from the dealer in the future??? I feel that this has to be useful in some way. Any thoughts???

 

[Martin Gayle]

If you were counting, the dealer may be onto you and counts as well, maybe just counts aces, while he deals, but isn't loyal to his employer enough to rat you out.

This reminded me of a dealer I would often play against. He spoke very little english so I never really spoke with him but he would give the best conditions, deepest pen, fast, etc. When I would "Wong out" and he would of course crush everyone by drawing out on his stiffs. He would turn the stub over at the end of the shoe, fan the cards (which was illegal in this jurisdiction) and look to see what the compostion was. The shuffle in this jurisdiction was also rudimentary and he would then coach where to put the cut card as if he knew where the ugly block of cards was and he wanted to cut it out.

While I don't usually ace squence I know the math and proof behind it, knowing that 3 of 4 cards were aces in the stub would be of no more use than knowing 3 of 4 cards were aces in the discard rack and also it probably means you played a sour shoe if the rest of the stub minus the four fanned cards were neutral.

Advice-use any info made public to your advantage. It would take a lot of practice to use the very opportunistic (perhaps once in a lifetime chance) info that 3/4 cards in the stub of the shoe to be shuffled are aces. You would kill the game sequencing, but again it doesn't matter where the 3/4 aces appear. However, if you know they are coming you will have over 50% +ev on a first card bullet. So bet as many spots you can and bet them big you won't usually find this strong an advantage.

In this specific case I would recommend not tipping the dealer EVER as if he is doing something illegal you never want to be tied to that. Lawyer says "The player tips the dealer everytime he breaks procedure; they are obviously colluding"

 

[HarryKuntz]

While I was playing in a six deck game I was being friendly with a dealer and chatting with him. I was at 3 rd base and probly three other people at the table. At the end of one shoe he pulled out the remaining card that hadnt been played yet, turned them over as he went to put them in the discard tray, and fanned them out to show only me that three of the next four cards were aces. I didnt really know how to interpret this as no ones ever done it before. I'm also not sure how he knew there were that many aces left or if he just looked for his own sake and when he saw it showed me as well???
No one else noticed what he did. Is there a way for me to use this info either by tracking these aces after they come out of the shuffle machine or by looking for more helpful showings from the dealer in the future??? I feel that this has to be useful in some way. Any thoughts???

With a good eye and good deck estimation skills, you could follow the aces through the shuffle and cut them to the front of the shoe, then spread to more spots and raise your bets.

Another way, would be to pick up a sequence of cards after the aces, wait for the sequence to appear then spread to more spots and raise your bets.

 

[GAGE COUNTY]

Shuffle machine

Is it possible to follow the aces through the shuffle machine by using the techniqes above? I dont think the dealer realizes that I'm counting cards because because prior to that I never spread past a 1-6 bet and it was the first time I played at his table. He could posibly be counting aces as he deals, but I doubt it. thanks for the responses guys

 

[HarryKuntz]

Is it possible to follow the aces through the shuffle machine by using the techniqes above? I dont think the dealer realizes that I'm counting cards because because prior to that I never spread past a 1-6 bet and it was the first time I played at his table. He could posibly be counting aces as he deals, but I doubt it. thanks for the responses guys

Sorry, I didn't realise you were talking about an ASM game, you wouldn't be able to watch the aces through the shuffle but you'd properly still be able to use sequencing. Although, I'm not sure 100% about this as I've never played in a casino that uses ASM's.

Can anybody else answer this?

 

[creeping panther]

Wrong

If you were counting, the dealer may be onto you and counts as well, maybe just counts aces, while he deals, but isn't loyal to his employer enough to rat you out.

This reminded me of a dealer I would often play against. He spoke very little english so I never really spoke with him but he would give the best conditions, deepest pen, fast, etc. When I would "Wong out" and he would of course crush everyone by drawing out on his stiffs. He would turn the stub over at the end of the shoe, fan the cards (which was illegal in this jurisdiction) and look to see what the compostion was. The shuffle in this jurisdiction was also rudimentary and he would then coach where to put the cut card as if he knew where the ugly block of cards was and he wanted to cut it out.

While I don't usually ace squence I know the math and proof behind it, knowing that 3 of 4 cards were aces in the stub would be of no more use than knowing 3 of 4 cards were aces in the discard rack and also it probably means you played a sour shoe if the rest of the stub minus the four fanned cards were neutral.

Advice-use any info made public to your advantage. It would take a lot of practice to use the very opportunistic (perhaps once in a lifetime chance) info that 3/4 cards in the stub of the shoe to be shuffled are aces. You would kill the game sequencing, but again it doesn't matter where the 3/4 aces appear. However, if you know they are coming you will have over 50% +ev on a first card bullet. So bet as many spots you can and bet them big you won't usually find this strong an advantage.

In this specific case I would recommend not tipping the dealer EVER as if he is doing something illegal you never want to be tied to that. Lawyer says "The player tips the dealer everytime he breaks procedure; they are obviously colluding"

Bad advice, tip the dealer and use him, her, as a tool to improve EV. Use everything possible to Draw Blood, especially helpful dealers:grin: Play like a "BJ Warrior".

The things I could tell about dealers

CP

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

CP: Wasn't there just recently a thread about player collusion with corrupt dealers all getting busted big time? And it turned out some of the players were just "going along for the ride" with the oversized payouts the dealer was giving?

I agree with Martin Gayle. Whether or not you're doing anything wrong, getting into legal trouble takes time and money. Two things better spent doing something else.

 

[creeping panther]

Bees

CP: Wasn't there just recently a thread about player collusion with corrupt dealers all getting busted big time? And it turned out some of the players were just "going along for the ride" with the oversized payouts the dealer was giving?

I agree with Martin Gayle. Whether or not you're doing anything wrong, getting into legal trouble takes time and money. Two things better spent doing something else.

Bro' I never said to do anything "criminal"......you must learn the difference

If you truly want to live your life as you preach be sure to correct the dealer when he pays pushes or overpays on bets, or does not pick up losing bets...... every time,... otherwise you may go to the slammer Just hope I am not at your table.:devil:

Actually run if the dealer should hint about his hole card, wink when he asks if you want insurance or let you know you should not hit, or should hit...run away, fast.



CP

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

Well I'm not currently into blackjack to make a living or even as a supplementary income, so it won't be all that hard for me to tell a dealer they overpaid me should I catch it quickly enough or to tell 'em I've lost a hand. If I catch it quickly enough, it can move fast.

Is it so hard to fathom someone who's not obsessed with money?

 

[Martin Gayle]

In my jurisdiction, tipping a dealer to incur an error could be deemed game cheat or fraud which equates to felony charges. Saying, "Dealer there is a shiny red chip in it for you everytime you show me the stub of the shoe," would be grounds for collusion. But of course this is hypothetical and did not happen in the situation being discussed.

I realise in NV laws like this are likely to be more loose.

Now, my gaming partner and I always make the correlation to taking a pushed bet that should have lost or other situations with the proverb, "Where one offers dishonest games one should expect to find dishonest gamers". I do not think it would be morally wrong to do things to incur an error but never to the point where I would cheat or collude. But overall casino gaming is probably immoral...if there was a law it would be against it!

That said, I would give back the change to a shop keeper who give change for a $20 when I give him a $10.

That said, I would peel stamps off an envelope which were mailed but the stamps were not spoiled by the postal service.