Double Deck vs. Six Deck - Rules included which one is better?

[bjcount]

HAHAH, my chemist instinct are kicking in. However i can't agree with you on the true count being uniformly accurate throughout the shoe, that is the floating advantage is all about after all.

I guess I have to agree with you there. The TC can not be uniformly accurate throughout the balance of the shoe because we do not know, in the cards to be played, where the high cards are. (although the TC number we arrive at is accurate for the total distribution of extra high cards)

I agree with Rukus too that the deeper pen also achieves higher and lower ranges of TC integers as can be proven by running sims at various penetration levels.

But in simple terms, if the count is high with less cards in the shoe as a total number of cards, not just where the cut card is, the better our chances of pulling the high cards.
So for example we at a 4/6d and theres a TC+5 with 2.25d left in the shoe we know there are more X's left than low cards but there scattered with very many low and neutral cards.
In a 5.5/6d game with 1d left in the shoe a TC+5 will provide us with a better opportunity to pull those X's as there are fewer cards overall in the mix.

BJC

Edit: Hey, Rukus you changed your post!

 

[rukus]

I guess I have to agree with you there. The TC can not be uniformly accurate throughout the balance of the shoe because we do not know, in the cards to be played, where the high cards are. (although the TC number we arrive at is accurate for the total distribution of extra high cards)

I agree with Rukus too that the deeper pen also achieves higher and lower ranges of TC integers as can be proven by running sims at various penetration levels.

But in simple terms, if the count is high with less cards in the shoe as a total number of cards, not just where the cut card is, the better our chances of pulling the high cards.
So for example we at a 4/6d and theres a TC+5 with 2.25d left in the shoe we know there are more X's left than low cards but there scattered with very many low and neutral cards.
In a 5.5/6d game with 1d left in the shoe a TC+5 will provide us with a better opportunity to pull those X's as there are fewer cards overall in the mix.

BJC

Edit: Hey, Rukus you changed your post!

Ha! yes i did change my post, several times, trying to clarify wording.


but i do still need to disagree :devil: probabilities are probabilities!
lets examine a TC of +6 (hilo) in a 6 deck game.
at 4Ds into the shoe, there are 2Ds remaining, or 104 cards. TC of +6 means there are 12 extra high cards in the deck. you have a 11.54% chance of drawing one of those high cards.

at 5Ds into the shoe, there is just 1Ds remaining, or 2 cards. TC of +6 means there are now 6 extra high cards in the deck. you still have a 11.54% chance of drawing one of those high cards.

 

[bjcount]

Ha! yes i did change my post, several times, trying to clarify wording.


but i do still need to disagree :devil: probabilities are probabilities!
lets examine a TC of +6 (hilo) in a 6 deck game.
at 4Ds into the shoe, there are 2Ds remaining, or 104 cards. TC of +6 means there are 12 extra high cards in the deck. you have a 11.54% chance of drawing one of those high cards.

at 5Ds into the shoe, there is just 1Ds remaining, or 2 cards. TC of +6 means there are now 6 extra high cards in the deck. you still have a 11.54% chance of drawing one of those high cards.

See that's why I rely on you for the math , to straighten my butt out.

Thanks for the example.

but, in your 4/6 example the games over you hit the cut card where in the 5.5/6 example you have 26 more cards to play.:grin: (based on my examples). That's where the deeper pen provides so much benefit to the game.


BJC

 

[rukus]

See that's why I rely on you for the math , to straighten my butt out.

Thanks for the example.

but, in your 4/6 example the games over you hit the cut card where in the 5.5/6 example you have 26 more cards to play.:grin: (based on my examples). That's where the deeper pen provides so much benefit to the game.


BJC

ha no worries, i dont feel like doing my "real" work at the office.
i was merely trying to explain that increasing pen doesnt increase overall advantage because of the way TC is calculated, it increases your advantage because it increases the frequencies of those high TCs (at which you have higher edges). it also increases the frequencies of those extremely negative counts, but we dont need to stay at the table for those :whip::devil:

 

[sagefr0g]

HAHAH, my chemist instinct are kicking in. However i can't agree with you on the true count being uniformly accurate throughout the shoe, that is the floating advantage is all about after all.

there you go again with that chemistry stuff.
couldn't that heterogeneity stuff of deeper pen still end up pretty much balanced? but anyway, i think i remember some one posting the idea that part of the floating advantage thing has to do with the fact that single deck has it's own intrinsic advantage. the point being penetration or depth for some multiple deck pack lets you approach the 'juicy' stuff that single deck can afford (that which is not available in the initial stages of such a pack). rules such as das and doubling 9's & soft hands that aren't usually allowed for single deck but allowed for multiple deck then become available for 'virtual' single deck if the pen is deep enough, sort of thing.
i skimmed through Don S's chapter on floating advantage and didn't see that mentioned.
what ever, have you ever wondered if ten value cards the negative value cards have an electronegative effect drawing positron, lmao i mean positive cards like 2's thru 6's so as to give us stiffs?:joker::whip:

 

[bjrookie]

hey guys,

Thanks for your in-depth analysis of Pen. From what i understood before i read all these posts, deeper pen leads to less variance. Because with a deeper penetration and a high count there are simply less numbers of low cards you can get. ie with 1 deck left and the TC +12 (32 high cards to 20 low cards), with two decks left TC+12 (64 high cards and 40 low cards)

is this correct or am i totally off?

am i dense and this is what everyone was already saying?

thanks again.

 

[iCountNTrack]

ha no worries, i dont feel like doing my "real" work at the office.
i was merely trying to explain that increasing pen doesnt increase overall advantage because of the way TC is calculated, it increases your advantage because it increases the frequencies of those high TCs (at which you have higher edges). it also increases the frequencies of those extremely negative counts, but we dont need to stay at the table for those :whip::devil:

That is actually only part of the answer, i should have mentioned that in my first post :

1. At deeper penetration the frequency of high counts would increase because clearly there are more cards dealt so chances of seeing those counts would increase.

2. A given true count is more valuable at deeper penetration because it is more advantageous (floating advantage) for instance in a 6D a TC of +2 is more advantageous when there is 1.5 decks left then when there is 5 decks left.

 

[rukus]

That is actually only part of the answer, i should have mentioned that in my first post :

1. At deeper penetration the frequency of high counts would increase because clearly there are more cards dealt so chances of seeing those counts would increase.

2. A given true count is more valuable at deeper penetration because it is more advantageous (floating advantage) for instance in a 6D a TC of +2 is more advantageous when there is 1.5 decks left then when there is 5 decks left.

ha, agreed with number 2 as well.

 

[rukus]

hey guys,

Thanks for your in-depth analysis of Pen. From what i understood before i read all these posts, deeper pen leads to less variance. Because with a deeper penetration and a high count there are simply less numbers of low cards you can get. ie with 1 deck left and the TC +12 (32 high cards to 20 low cards), with two decks left TC+12 (64 high cards and 40 low cards)

is this correct or am i totally off?

am i dense and this is what everyone was already saying?

thanks again.

go back and see my post describing how the probabilities of drawing a high card doesnt change for a given TC at any pen level.
32/(32+20) = 64/(64+40)

 

[blackjackstudent]

So having read through the posts, are 6 deck games more profitable than 2 deck games? 2 deck games only offer 60% penetration before reshuffling occurs but with 2 deck games, its kind of easy to count but the fact that 60% penetration is offered makes counting redundant.

 

[Cardcounter]

no question I pick the double deck game! Where do you get such a fine double deck game?

 

[Cardcounter]

Exception

only exception when the 6 deck game is better is when you have a first card is an ace coupon than the spliting and respliting of aces is much more common. Because you will take a 220 to 1 or maybe a 150 to 1 situation with really good count down to a 13 to 1 scenario for getting two aces. With a resplit coming more often because there is one more ace in the deck to get when you resplit. Otherwise I would go with the sweet two decker.