fallout from a big win

[blackjack avenger]

Some Small Holes in My Arguments

lower bets when winning big
raise bets when losing big

I have said you need a conservative bank for this, it goes against kelly resizing theory.

Also, probably a very very rare event. What if you are being cheated? You are betting bigger into a cheat and betting smaller into a potentially honest game. I don't think this is a real issue.

Side notes:
When deciding to bet bigger when losing it does not mean one has to raise their top bets, one could raise their small/medium bets or let big bets ride! This is probably less N0 damaging.

A classes strategy to get big bets down is steaming where you are losing and throw out big bets!

 

[Machinist]

And let's not forget win threshhold's. I have a list in my head of win threshholds for stores and also cashout threshholds....
Both are dam small IMO. You start bumping up against 4g or so and you get attention.

Mac

 

[Machinist]

And then we come full circle back to the value of a BP!!!!!!!
Ughghghgh......Teams, organizing, etc....

Machinist

 

[Coyote]

Thanks for sharing the second episode of your dream shoe story KJ! To a relativlely new AP it is hard to imagine what you went through. In all things, there is something to be learned.

Stay Sharp!:toast:

Coyote

 

[blackjack avenger]

Quad Barrier

And let's not forget win threshhold's. I have a list in my head of win threshholds for stores and also cashout threshholds....
Both are dam small IMO. You start bumping up against 4g or so and you get attention.

Mac

We have a win threshold for heat.
ID requested for large cashouts.
Big buy in heat, least worrisome?
10g cash transaction ID request if playing unrated

It does seem playing to these real world thresholds makes sense, vs blindly following some sim?

 

[Gamblor]

We have a win threshold for heat.
ID requested for large cashouts.
Big buy in heat, least worrisome?
10g cash transaction ID request if playing unrated

It does seem playing to these real world thresholds makes sense, vs blindly following some sim?

Yeah tough to say when a win threshold is, but prudent to have one (I have mine). As you say avenger its not worth rubbing it in the casinos face. Why slaughter the cow when it gives you milk for free, or something like that

Not sure kewl if you mentioned this, but just curious, did you leave immediately leave after the hot shoe? Hope you didn't stick around?

 

[kewljason]

I know relatively little about this subject, but this story scares the hell out of me. People who work for casinos, especially in the pit, are slimy by definition. If they know where you go for a drink, isn't it plausible that they know where you live, or where you park your car at night? You could be a target for a robbery, or worse.

If this gentleman simply wanted to back you off in the course of his official duties, he would have notified surveillance and expended no further effort. Instead, it's at least possible that he or someone is following you around. And for what?

I hope I didn't imply that this was anything but a chance meeting. I think you are buying into Avenger's paranoia, conspiracy theory. No body was following me around for a month. :laugh: We aren't talking about that kind of money here. I think this gent and myself were just having a drink at the same location at the same time (along with a hundred other folks).

 

[horse_johnson]

It's less about the relatively small amount of money and more about who you are. I don't know you personally, of course, but my stereotype of the average card counter (if there is such a thing) is of a lone unarmed guy without friends in high places who's just wandering about with a few thousand dollars in his pocket. Further, the powers that be in Las Vegas (or anywhere, for that matter) have no particular interest in protecting the safety of a card counter. You're not a tourist.

For example, psycho serial killers figure no one will bother them if they kill a prostitute. Along the same lines, maybe a full-time card counter has to be especially vigilant in case of unfortunate encounters with a variety of wrongdoers.

I'm probably smoking more than a little crack here, but if I were in your situation, this encounter would have disturbed me. If all that PB wanted to accomplish was a kind, gentlemanly backoff, there are so many other ways.

But hey, congratulations!

 

[SystemsTrader]

I hope I didn't imply that this was anything but a chance meeting. I think you are buying into Avenger's paranoia, conspiracy theory. No body was following me around for a month. :laugh: We aren't talking about that kind of money here. I think this gent and myself were just having a drink at the same location at the same time (along with a hundred other folks).

Kewl how close was the bar to the scene of the crime?

 

[blackjack avenger]

Don't You Oppress Me

:laugh:

I hope I didn't imply that this was anything but a chance meeting. I think you are buying into Avenger's paranoia, conspiracy theory. No body was following me around for a month. :laugh: We aren't talking about that kind of money here. I think this gent and myself were just having a drink at the same location at the same time (along with a hundred other folks).

I never implied you were being followed around.

You state you were backed off in a bar. I say you need to be careful when "out and about" and you say I am paranoid?

paranoid = correct
I guess?

 

[Billy C1]

Nice PB's

It's less about the relatively small amount of money and more about who you are. I don't know you personally, of course, but my stereotype of the average card counter (if there is such a thing) is of a lone unarmed guy without friends in high places who's just wandering about with a few thousand dollars in his pocket. Further, the powers that be in Las Vegas (or anywhere, for that matter) have no particular interest in protecting the safety of a card counter. You're not a tourist.

For example, psycho serial killers figure no one will bother them if they kill a prostitute. Along the same lines, maybe a full-time card counter has to be especially vigilant in case of unfortunate encounters with a variety of wrongdoers.

I'm probably smoking more than a little crack here, but if I were in your situation, this encounter would have disturbed me. If all that PB wanted to accomplish was a kind, gentlemanly backoff, there are so many other ways.

But hey, congratulations!

You're way too paranoid. I know MANY PB's that are quite nice people. Being a PB doesn't always equal being a jerk.
From the info Jason gave, it seems that he encountered such an individual that is simply doing his job (and probably not to the extent that he's told to!)

BillyC1

 

[kewljason]

You state you were backed off in a bar.

Backed off in a bar and I wasn't even drunk! That doesn't seem right. :laugh:

I know MANY PB's that are quite nice people. Being a PB doesn't always equal being a jerk.

BillyC1

I strongly agree with this. From my experience most pit people are just guys (or gals) doing a job. And they aren't all that enthushed about it either. Like many working stiffs, they are just counting down til the shift ends. And I think they would rather not have to back you off or barr you. By the time they start to have thoughts about me, I am usually heading out the door or just about to and I really beleive that suits them just fine. Less work for them. I have come to this conclusion, because I play some places too regularly and I see some pit people that I am sure recognize me. I really believe there are a some that have figured me out and just let me go. They know, I am small time and will be gone shortly and it's just easier for them to look away for a few minutes.

On the other hand, there are those few, that are all gung ho. Think they are climbing the ladder or maybe just moved up. trying to make a name for themselves or whatever. They are the ones ya gotta watch out for. Luckily, you can always spot that type early on.

 

[sagefr0g]

just curious kewl won, you mentioned some of what the pit critter said to you, so but i'm wondering how you responded and what you to chatted about over the course of a couple of drinks.

 

[kewljason]

just curious kewl won, you mentioned some of what the pit critter said to you, so but i'm wondering how you responded and what you to chatted about over the course of a couple of drinks.

hey froggy. I already told ya the relevant parts. I didn't admit to anything and tried to play the 'I was soo lucky that day' role, which carried absolutely no weight. That is when he mentioned he had figured me out a while back. I just listened and agreed not to play his shift and I did thank him at the end as I feel like he may have been doing me a courtesy. I know pit people have been know to turn on a dime, and that could be the case. We will see. Other than that just some small talk irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[kewljason]

Geez, I though some of you guys would have somewhat similar stories of incidents of encounters with casino personel outside of the casino, that I might be able to take something from. I mean some of you guys will do almost anything to get an advantage. Wouldn't be surprised at all if ya slept with female pit to get an edge and/or some info. :laugh:

 

[blackjack avenger]

Not Spy's Huh?

I mean some of you guys will do almost anything to get an advantage. Wouldn't be surprised at all if ya slept with female pit to get an edge and/or some info. :laugh:

Now that is something James Bond would do! I almost brought up this point!

 

[blackjack avenger]

Nice Doggie

You're way too paranoid. I know MANY PB's that are quite nice people. Being a PB doesn't always equal being a jerk.
From the info Jason gave, it seems that he encountered such an individual that is simply doing his job (and probably not to the extent that he's told to!)
BillyC1

My mother told me to never pet strange dogs. All dogs (pit critter dogs) are nice until they bite you!

Do you err on the side of them being a threat to your play? or the smiling, friendly, happy go lucky,
hoping you win :laugh: greeters and the giver of comp gifts!:devil:

The pit does not have to be the nasty one
they can just release the hounds (security)

A simple test
Play aggressively, blatantly
Win
Tell them you are a card counter
Ask for a comp

Will most of the dogs bite? Those nasty barring, arrests, assaults, police, denied payment and detentions you hear about, probably started with a pit noticing something!

The dogs bite; and can bite hard, never forget it! Probably many would agree once they get bit!

 

[blackjack avenger]

Acceptance or Limited?

I play some places too regularly and I see some pit people that I am sure recognize me. I really believe there are a some that have figured me out and just let me go. They know, I am small time and will be gone shortly and it's just easier for them to look away for a few minutes.

If you think they have made you, that is a very bad thing. If they let you play that is some consolation. Overall, it's not a good situation because you feel limited in what you can do.

 

[Solo player]

A couple weeks ago, I posted about what was for me, a rather large win a while back. As circumstanses would have it, this event took place in the slow morning hours when the casino was slow and I was alone at the table for most of the damage. There was no doubt in my mind that I had drawn attention. By the end of the shoe, one of the pit fella's had taken an interest in my play. :sad:

I have not returned to that location since the event, but that didn't stop the fallout from the event. Last evening I was backed off. About 2 miles from the casino. I was having a brewski, watching a basketball game at a bar, when that very pit gent, sat down bought me a beer and told me that he was not going to let me play on his shift anymore. I was in total shock! I don't receive many back offs to begin with, but never in my wildest dreams would expect this. He was very nice. Very friendly. And we had a nice chat. He even provided me with a little bit of info about how often he sees counters, and how often he backs them off. He told me he only backs people off when it becomes so obvious that he fears he could get heat if he doesn't. He said he had identified me a while ago, but had previously looked the other way, but no longer could. He bought me a second drink before he departed. Certainly about the nicest back off one could ever hope to get, but still a back off, and one that clearly will not disappear with time.

Again, he only stated that he could not let me play on his shift. I didn't want to press him on that. I will find out the exact meaning of that when the time comes. Has anyone ever encountered such a backoff, or I guess more accurately, a warning, in a setting away from the casino?

This is a great post. And if it happend to me, I would flatterd by what I see as professional compliment coming from someone on the other side of the table.

 

[Sharky]

on offense, but betting 25% less when winning and 25% more when losing, has to be one of the most ridiculous things i've read on this board especially coming from a (seemingly) seasoned vet

perhaps this strategy might hold in a store you frequent regularly where there are no, or few, other games nearby, but Vega$, come on' man!

KJ, don't fraternize with the enemy, nothing good can come from it - you can afford your own beer....and don't get chatty w/ them over alcohol..almost sounds like you agreed with his assessment of your play...deny, deny, deny...iow, "oh, you are the PB at "X"...that was the luckiest my progression system has ever been...I knew I was due...close to even for the year"