First time in Live Poker

[Canceler]

...and how conservatively I bet through...

Timidity is not rewarded.

I can elaborate on that if you'd like, even though I'm certainly no expert at poker.

 

[gibsonlp33stl]

That makes more sense Caly...the way you said it the first time I thought you meant a standard EV and SD for Limit Poker...I didn't realize you meant that EV and SD for you playing limit poker with the people you play against. If you're just getting that from your historical data than the numbers make sense. My whole point is that there are so many variables in poker that would directly effect EV and SD. In blackjack there are only the rules of the game, the number of decks, and penetration. I tried gridning out low stakes BJ, but after playing poker I find it much more enjoyable. You can relax more, don't have to constantly keep count, don't have to worry about heat. But that's more of a personal preference obviously than anything else.

 

[callipygian]

My whole point is that there are so many variables in poker that would directly effect EV and SD.

Yeah, sorry, I should have mentioned that it's basically SSHE tactics vs. standard panel of LLHE loose-passives.

 

[UK-21]

Timidity is not rewarded.

I can elaborate on that if you'd like, even though I'm certainly no expert at poker.

Conservative as in not overbetting an advantage. And it's limit (at low stakes) which has the inherrent problem that it costs peanuts to call through to the River - especially for people who are up, and take the view that they're playing with other people's money.

 

[callipygian]

Conservative as in not overbetting an advantage. And it's limit (at low stakes) which has the inherrent problem that it costs peanuts to call through to the River

More importantly, overbetting in one spot tends to make later streets easier to play for bad players. If you raise pre-flop with a marginal hand and 6 people call, you've got 14+ SB's going into the flop, and people can legitimately call with as little as a single overcard while getting proper pot odds. If you then raise the flop and get 4 callers, you've got 11 BB's going into the turn and people can still legitimately call with gutshot straight draws. You won't make money off of these people in the long run because they're not making mistakes.

I'm no expert at this but SSHE goes into detail about manipulating pot size to maximize opponents' mistakes.

 

[gibsonlp33stl]

I think they are still making mistakes...but they are making their mistakes preflop. Their mistake is calling the way too large preflop raise for a marginal hand. That's like if someone called a flush draw on the flop for 15BB with 3BB in the pot. Obviously this is a terrible call. But then turn doesn't hit, and then the person calls a 3BB bet on the turn. That second call on the turn is the correct call...but overall the guy is still a loser in the long run b/c his call on the flop was horrible.

 

[gibsonlp33stl]

Plus - there's about a million ways to make money playing poker...all kinds of different strategies...just watch High Stakes Poker...all those guys play very different but they are all great players and winners in the long run. You can't argue about poker like you do blackjack, there isn't always one right way to play. It's all about the results So Calyp's strategy could seem strange to me but win him tons of money...so who gives a rat ass what I think!

 

[moo321]

I think they are still making mistakes...but they are making their mistakes preflop. Their mistake is calling the way too large preflop raise for a marginal hand. That's like if someone called a flush draw on the flop for 15BB with 3BB in the pot. Obviously this is a terrible call. But then turn doesn't hit, and then the person calls a 3BB bet on the turn. That second call on the turn is the correct call...but overall the guy is still a loser in the long run b/c his call on the flop was horrible.

Just because people are making correct calls does not mean you aren't profiting from these calls.

Let's say, for example, you have a hand that will win 40% of the time. You have 3 clowns in your pot, each with a 20% chance. You won't win the majority of the time, and their calls are correct. BUT, every bet you make adds 3 bets to the pot which you will drag a plurality of.

The same reasoning will actually lead you to bet and raise your strong flop draws with multi-way action. If I have an ace-high flush draw against 5 callers, I should cap, even if I KNOW one player has a set and has a stronger chance of winning. I'm still cutting up the idiots who have slimmer odds.

 

[gibsonlp33stl]

Very good point Moo...

 

[callipygian]

I think they are still making mistakes...but they are making their mistakes preflop. Their mistake is calling the way too large preflop raise for a marginal hand.

This is another difference between NLHE and LHE - nobody can make large preflop raises in LHE, and in LLHE, preflop raising is rare to begin with, much less 3-bets. Given the amount of money that goes in post-flop, especially on big street raises, post-flop play is relatively more valuable than pre-flop play.

You can beat LLHE by taking advantage of pre-flop mistakes only, especially since so many people make them, but you'll need to take advantage of post-flop mistakes as well if you want to soundly beat the game.

Like you said, it's mostly a function of what game you're playing. Beating LLHE is different from beating MLHE or NLHE; beating a bunch of rocks at a local casino is different from beating a bunch of tourist kids in Las Vegas.