Had this happen...

[bigticket]

So I was at my favorite place in Minnesota to play blackjack last week and this happened to me. I was playing a 6 deck 5-199 game and the game is good. Two kids jump into the game mid shoe and guy to my right buys in for 50 plays two hands at 5 and loses, then pushes out 20 next bet and gets 2's against dealers 5 . Pit boss has been watching over table possibly a little heat because I had now been warranting the dealer yelling "checks play" the last 3 hands. Anyways the kids got no more money left and gets a 9 on the first hand and the kid has no more money left and the PB is telling him to give me action since I was sitting right next to him and had the funds to double. For whatever reason the kid reluctantly allows me to double down his $20 and hit a 10 , next 2 he gets a 9 and now the kid wants to just hit it and I tell him let me double it down if youre gonna do that and again PB is encouraging him to allow me "action" So slide the 20 over he doubles another face card for 21. I have my own double down as well a soft 15 and nail a 5 everything worked out perfect. Then it comes time to payout and the PB now tells the kid he should run for the cashier with all the money and Im like wtf and tell the kid to ship me 80 and he looks confused and its at this point I know this is not going good. The asian guy on 3rd base is also telling him to ship me 80 , my $40 plus the winnings , and the kid offers to give me $40 back and at this point I get very aggitated and know Im getting stiffed. Then this long time PB says to me how it normally goes is I get just my money back and its like a loan. I tell him that is most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while and then finally the kid asks me if he can just ship me $60 and I take it and run. Although I still told him it was incorrect and I should be getting $80

Im just wondering if the PB was fking with me because he mightve suspected me as being an AP. He definitely pissed me off to the point where I just got up and left. I was there past my time anyways if you know what I mean and I had a great little run.

This is so often I've got burned helping the guy out next to me , what happened to the days when it was common knowledge that if you are out of money and are all in essentially that if you give your action to the player next to you and if you win on his bets you ship him the winnings and if he want to give you a toke then at that point he can. Does this ever happen to anybody else or do you just decline to slide money over to an unknown but it sure is +EV when you can take on somebody elses double downs especially when in a positive count.

 

[Doofus]

This is so often I've got burned helping the guy out next to me , what happened to the days when it was common knowledge that if you are out of money and are all in essentially that if you give your action to the player next to you

This is exactly the reason why I don't try to horn in on action in other hands at the table. Some APs make a big deal about how there is a lot of +EV in this, I see it as just an opportunity for some ploppy to screw you. As we're all already being screwed by the house anyway, I'm not particularly interested in this added bit of double penetration.

 

[21forme]

That PB was way out of line. You should have asked for his supervisor before the kid left.

Before I go in on someone else's play, I always make it clear how it will work. For example, on a split, are you going to share the outcome of both hands or you each get to play your own single hand?

 

[EasyRhino]

The pit critter was probably dicking with you, but there's also a small chance he is just tremendously ignorant.

Although, one player who added a green chip to one of my doubles was pretty surprised when I gave him his full $50 after we won. Then again, he was pretty drunk.

A while ago a guy went all-in with his $100, and got a hand to split. I offered to go in teamsies, and we'd just split the result 50/50. We ended up pushing one hand, and losing the other, and he had only a single black chip. We stared at each other for a sec, and I said "so... let me get you $50 change for that chip" and we traded. No drama.

 

[jack.jackson]

In my view,

The pit-bull, like the ploppy, was'nt intentionally out to screw you, but rather, more than likely, simply didnt understand the stipulations, behind the scavenger play(s).

You should of made a case-n-point to them.

Why would I risk this bet, if I had no chance to win???When my only options,we're to LOSE or PUSH??????/


Tip:

Read and anticipate, what the player may do, in this situation. For he has the final word!!!

OR

Simply, clarify the concept of these play's to the player, before making them.

 

[ihate17]

A freakin Loan!!!!

A loan? And just how are you supposed to collect on this so called loan if the hand lost?
This is BS (and I do not mean basic strategy) because we all know that if the hand lost, the chips taken, there would be no statement from the pit to the kid that he has to pay you back your $40 loan.

More than likely you would have been leaving that joint on that pits shift after that hand anyway unless there was something special about the game. I would have insisted on speaking to his boss. The problem here also becomes the instructions the pit gave the pit compounded by you and the kid not having a prior agreement. The kid may not know any better. The pit certainly did (unless it was his first day without prior experience on a blackjack table in his life) and the pit screwed with you.

Finally, I make a distinction between games I might play and games I do not ever want to lose my ability to play. If this happened to be just another game, I would have no problem taking the chance of burning my bridges by making as much of a stink as possible but always quietly and nicely. I have done this in places like both Vegas and Indian Casinos, even going over a shift manager's and table game manager's heads (it was worth it) to the casino manager.

Finally, this is probably a very instance but you might want to get a verbal agreement in the future.

ihate17

 

[jay28]

I had this kind of happen in reverse the other day.

A side game popular in the UK is called perfect pairs. The rules of this are that you can match your normal stake on the perfect pairs game and if your two first cards are a pair it plays:-

two identical cards (ie Qd Qd) 30-1
a pair of the same colour (ie Qd Qh) 10-1
a different coloured pair (ie Qd Qs) 5-1

I obviously don't play side games but was hitting a lot of pairs and everybody else was playing. The guy next to me asked the dealer if he could play my perfect pairs spot, I said I didn't mind but the dealer said no and that he would have to place a "back bet" on the hand too. So the guy did. After a while another guy starting doing this too.

I didn't mind this too much but I felt bad each time I wanted to double, of course they then had to double their back bets too. They were both ploopies and didn't understand some of my BS plays either. I also got a bit of attention from the pit because all the additional bets on my spot.

Anyway, this went of for several shoes, I ended up with a quite a few pairs and they both also made money from my plays.

I didn't ask and wouldn't expect anything from them, it was their money and their bets.

 

[InPlay]

So I was at my favorite place in Minnesota to play blackjack last week and this happened to me. I was playing a 6 deck 5-199 game and the game is good. Two kids jump into the game mid shoe and guy to my right buys in for 50 plays two hands at 5 and loses, then pushes out 20 next bet and gets 2's against dealers 5 . Pit boss has been watching over table possibly a little heat because I had now been warranting the dealer yelling "checks play" the last 3 hands. Anyways the kids got no more money left and gets a 9 on the first hand and the kid has no more money left and the PB is telling him to give me action since I was sitting right next to him and had the funds to double. For whatever reason the kid reluctantly allows me to double down his $20 and hit a 10 , next 2 he gets a 9 and now the kid wants to just hit it and I tell him let me double it down if youre gonna do that and again PB is encouraging him to allow me "action" So slide the 20 over he doubles another face card for 21. I have my own double down as well a soft 15 and nail a 5 everything worked out perfect. Then it comes time to payout and the PB now tells the kid he should run for the cashier with all the money and Im like wtf and tell the kid to ship me 80 and he looks confused and its at this point I know this is not going good. The asian guy on 3rd base is also telling him to ship me 80 , my $40 plus the winnings , and the kid offers to give me $40 back and at this point I get very aggitated and know Im getting stiffed. Then this long time PB says to me how it normally goes is I get just my money back and its like a loan. I tell him that is most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while and then finally the kid asks me if he can just ship me $60 and I take it and run. Although I still told him it was incorrect and I should be getting $80

Im just wondering if the PB was fking with me because he mightve suspected me as being an AP. He definitely pissed me off to the point where I just got up and left. I was there past my time anyways if you know what I mean and I had a great little run.

This is so often I've got burned helping the guy out next to me , what happened to the days when it was common knowledge that if you are out of money and are all in essentially that if you give your action to the player next to you and if you win on his bets you ship him the winnings and if he want to give you a toke then at that point he can. Does this ever happen to anybody else or do you just decline to slide money over to an unknown but it sure is +EV when you can take on somebody elses double downs especially when in a positive count.

Their was an incident similiar to this at one of the casino's I play at. The guy walked away with the money $100. The guy who gave him the money did not say a thing he just let him walk away. About a week later I see the guy who had walked away with the money. He had his arm in a cast probally broken and his face looked like it was used for a punching bag. You just don't ever now how you are fooling with.

 

[zengrifter]

This is so often I've got burned helping the guy out next to me , what happened to the days when it was common knowledge that if you are out of money and are all in essentially that if you give your action to the player next to you and if you win on his bets you ship him the winnings and if he want to give you a toke then at that point he can. Does this ever happen to anybody else or do you just decline to slide money over to an unknown but it sure is +EV when you can take on somebody elses double downs especially when in a positive count.

A certain degree of deft is required. Don't give up, and always remain cool. zg

From: Hole-carding + Scavenger play​

Barfarkel: When our flashing dealer ended his stint the table was still filled to capacity, but The Grifter wanted to continue playing anyway, and indicated that I should watch. This table was filled with some of the worst players I’ve ever seen, but Grif had been giving them solid advice. He swung into action when the ploppy at first base picked up hard eleven. The Grifter boldly asserted, "Flip it over - we're going partners on that." He tossed the player the other half of the double down amount as the ploppy replied "Let’s ride!" They won the hand when the dealer busted. ​

Grif worked the table for the next hour, getting a slew of partner-doubles and splits (including tens), demonstrating what Grosjean calls "scavenger blackjack." More often than not the others he was exploiting would thank him for "sharing the risk." .... I watched the master in action as he advised everyone - the life of the party as always, as he took advantage of one of his new "table partners who was declining insurance. The Grifter took the insurance bet and won and when the table partner asked how much he owed Grif he was told by a smiling Grifter, "all of it," whereupon the happless accomplice just shrugged and said, "better you then them because, Dude, your my advisor!" Shortly thereafter Grif colored up another 20 unit win at an otherwise unplayable table by any expert's evaluation - his style and outgoing personality allowing him to get away with things that I and most other counters would never even consider trying. ​

 

[EasyRhino]

This is so often I've got burned helping the guy out next to me

To be fair, you weren't really planning on helping the guy out any in that case. He would have had the same expected value hitting his 10 v 5 as he would have letting someone else pile on his double down.

On the other hand, if you contributed funds to help him split those 2's, then it would have been win/win for both of you.

 

[zengrifter]

If you make these scavenger moves alot, you'll occaisionally encounter payoff difficulties.
I've had more trouble with receiving payoffs on placing others' insurance bets, after winning. zg

 

[la_dee_daa]

when ever i play someone always wants to play my lucky lady bet... im fine with it they just give me a buck or what ever they want to put on it and i place it...... one dealer wouldn't let us do this but many others have no problem with it.... nice thing was one guy said he would give me 25% of the win if he hit QQ or hearts on my hand. i was rooting for it!.

 

[zengrifter]

when ever i play someone always wants to play my lucky lady bet... im fine with it they just give me a buck or what ever they want to put on it and i place it...... one dealer wouldn't let us do this but many others have no problem with it.... nice thing was one guy said he would give me 25% of the win if he hit QQ or hearts on my hand. i was rooting for it!.

That works, but then when its time for you to bet $25 on his and yours, give him nothing. zg

 

[Automatic Monkey]

This is a problem. I will usually ask "Do you want a partner?" and that word partner has a certain connotation. Different than a loan.

You might want to avoid doing this with a person in a different demographic than you, who might not have the same understandings as you, or may bear some distrust towards you.

 

[la_dee_daa]

That works, but then when its time for you to bet $25 on his and yours, give him nothing. zg

well i might let him keep his dollar he put on it to........ might!

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Finally, I make a distinction between games I might play and games I do not ever want to lose my ability to play. If this happened to be just another game, I would have no problem taking the chance of burning my bridges by making as much of a stink as possible but always quietly and nicely. I have done this in places like both Vegas and Indian Casinos, even going over a shift manager's and table game manager's heads (it was worth it) to the casino manager.

Finally, this is probably a very instance but you might want to get a verbal agreement in the future.

ihate17

If I know the casino the OP is referring to, and I think I do, well, I wouldn't want to lose the game either! There are a few other games in the immediate area, not horrible, but not all that great either.

 

[la_dee_daa]

iv loaned $1s to people for the lucky lady bets... but it is very clear that it is a loan and i want no part in that action!!

 

[Jack_of_Tirades]

When they are out of $, it's better to get an invite or that deer in the headlights look (sending out an SOS) before jumping in. In those situations (after a win) I usually just turn to the dealer and say "how much do they owe me." Unless the dealer's a tard their word usually carries the weight of authority.

 

[GeorgeD]

Had a nice 11 once and was reaching for my wallet to buy chips, when someone tossed me the chips to double. FIgured it was a loan and he just didn't want to slow the play while I bought in diring the deal.

Won and gave him his chips back. Would have bought more and paid him if I lost. Now that it came up, suppose I should have asked if it was a loan or his action. In any event he didn't seem PO'd to only get his chips back.

 

[InPlay]

When they are out of $, it's better to get an invite or that deer in the headlights look (sending out an SOS) before jumping in. In those situations (after a win) I usually just turn to the dealer and say "how much do they owe me." Unless the dealer's a tard their word usually carries the weight of authority.

In your dreams the money belongs to the player playing that circle. Dealer has no say so.