hands affected by density of 7

blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
in the right direction

Wong dropped the A side count for playing because not worth much for halves and hi Lo.

If you play exclusively quality hand held then a side count can add some.

If you are determined to side count, then probably hi op II with A side count may be the best.
 
B

boneuphtoner

Well-Known Member
ZEN with 7s side count blows away HO2 w/As . zg
Yesterday 11:08 PM
Click to expand...

Cool! Do you have these adjustments available? Also, I would assume this would also work for FELT (modernized RPC using count per deck).
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
Never side counted 7's myself, so was wondering, does side counting 7's alter your betting amounts, or does it just affect your playing decisions?
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
The statement, "ZEN with 7s side count blows away HO2 w/As"
is quite misleading — as playing Hi Opt II without the Ace Side Count "cripples" it.

 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
Gamblor, you asked:

" ... does side counting 7's alter your betting amounts, or does it just affect your playing decisions?"

It only affects Playing Decisions.
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
OK thanks Flash, then I'll stick with an Ace side count, much more "superior" for the way I play :)

Also curious, does anyone side count both Aces and 7s, offsetting then against each other similar to an Ace-5 count? Would this be effective?
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
Aces and sevens do NOT "offset" The E.O.R. is "positive" on both.

The accepted method in a "pitch game" is to count Aces via quarter deck.

However, in a shoe game it is preferred that you count Aces by balancing

them against an uncounted low card with the same absolute value but opposite sign.

However that situation will not be easily found, so ...

If the TEN is counted as −2 two small uncounted cards with +1 tags. are the countervailing factor.
 
psyduck

psyduck

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
ZEN with 7s side count blows away HO2 w/As . zg
Click to expand...
Zen already has 7 in the main count. Is it correct that the side count card is neutral in the main count?
 
psyduck

psyduck

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
However, in a shoe game it is preferred that you count Aces by balancing

them against an uncounted low card with the same absolute value but opposite sign.
Click to expand...
Flash,

Say in the case of HiOpt I which does not count 2s and 7s, if you count As against 2s, I think you only get the distribution of As relative to 2s, not necessarily the same as real density of As in the unplayed shoe. Is that right?
 
T

tthree

Banned
psyduck said:
Flash,

Say in the case of HiOpt I which does not count 2s and 7s, if you count As against 2s, I think you only get the distribution of As relative to 2s, not necessarily the same as real density of As in the unplayed shoe. Is that right?
Click to expand...
You are correct. Your estimate for remaining decks predicts how many aces are expected. You can then determine if you have a surplus or deficit compared to your side count. This is used to temporarily adjust the RC in the appropriate manner for the true count conversion.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
FLASH1296 said:
The statement, "ZEN with 7s side count blows away HO2 w/As"
is quite misleading — as playing Hi Opt II without the Ace Side Count "cripples" it.
Click to expand...
I said WITH: ZEN WITH 7s vs HO2 WITH As. zg
 
T

tthree

Banned
zengrifter said:
I said WITH: ZEN WITH 7s vs HO2 WITH As. zg
Click to expand...
I believe flashes point is HIOPT II does not look at the A side count as adding a side count. So a fair comparison would be to side count both aces and sevens. Don't start wining about how hard that is. It only takes practice. I know people who keep 4 counts at once. Once you develop the discipline it becomes second nature.

It is like when you are born rolling over seems hard (like basic strategy). Next crawling seems hard (level 1 count). Then walking seems hard (level 2+ count). Then riding a bike seems hard (adding side counts). In retrospect the steps seemed hard for a brief period but became second nature with some practice.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
psyduck said:
It should be relatively easy to have some side counts in pitch games. I imagine if I play mostly single deck games, I would try to side count 7, or 7+8, or even 7+8+9. I am not sure how much PE will be gained, but it would be great to be able to use a very small spread along with these side counts to beat a single deck game.
Click to expand...
The easiest compromise is to count 7s/8s as a single value.
Bivaluate adjusting is not sufficiently recognized for 6D, nor recommended, but there is a substantial PE increase even there, according to sims run by THopper and others. zg
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
psyduck said:
HiLo with 7 sidecount or Zen (no sidecount)?
Click to expand...
HiLo w/7s

Multiparameter Increased PE for HiOpt-1 >>
From - http://wiretap.area.com/Gopher/Library/Article/Gaming/hi-opt-1.txt
Code: 
                      PLAYING    BETTING             COUNT VALUES
SYSTEM              EFFICIENCY CORRELATION   A  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10
Hi-Opt I               .615        .88       0  0 +1 +1 +1 +1  0  0  0 -1
[U]Hi-Opt I + A           .635        .96                    "[/U]
[B][U]Hi-Opt I + A,7         .736        .97                    "[/U][/B]
Hi-Opt I + A,7,8       .811        .97                    "
Hi-Opt I + A,7,8,9     .870        .97                    "
Hi-Opt I + A,7,8,9,2   .891        .98                    "

High-Low               .51         .97      -1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1  0  0  0 -1
Hi-Opt II              .67         .91       0 +1 +1 +2 +2 +1 +1  0  0 -2
Zen                    .63         .97      -1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1  0  0 -2 
Uston APC + A          .69         .91       0 +1 +2 +2 +3 +2 +2 +1 -1 -3
 
Last edited:
psyduck

psyduck

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
HiLo w/7s

Multiparameter Increased PE for HiOpt-1 >>
Code: 
                      PLAYING    BETTING             COUNT VALUES
SYSTEM              EFFICIENCY CORRELATION   A  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10
Hi-Opt I               .615        .88       0  0 +1 +1 +1 +1  0  0  0 -1
[U]Hi-Opt I + A           .635        .96                    "[/U]
[B][U]Hi-Opt I + A,7         .736        .97                    "[/U][/B]
Hi-Opt I + A,7,8       .811        .97                    "
Hi-Opt I + A,7,8,9     .870        .97                    "
Hi-Opt I + A,7,8,9,2   .891        .98                    "

High-Low               .51         .97      -1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1  0  0  0 -1
Hi-Opt II              .67         .91       0 +1 +1 +2 +2 +1 +1  0  0 -2
Zen                    .63         .97      -1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1  0  0 -2 
Uston APC + A          .69         .91       0 +1 +2 +2 +3 +2 +2 +1 -1 -3
Click to expand...
I was talking HiLo with 7 sidecount vs Zen, not HiOpt I with A/7 sidecount vs Zen.
 
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