Has my Casino effectively killed the insurance deviation?

B

BrokenSaints

Member
I am just beginning to implement the I18 rule sets into my game. Of course one of the most used and best deviations is to buy insurance when the TC is +3 or greater. However the games in my area seem to have a rule that effectively kills this deviation. The dealer does not take there hole card until all the players are done playing. I will give you an example in hopes of making it clearer.


Each player and the dealer is dealt there first card face up, each player is dealt there second card faceup but the dealer does not take there second card yet. The Dealer is showing an Ace and the TC is +3 I18 states I should take insurance however by the time each of the players takes there turn the count could be way different by the time the dealer draws there second card. Insurance closes before the first player plays of course.

Have they made it impossible to effectively play the insurance deviation? Should I still play it in hopes that the count remains the same or gets even more favorable?

Thanks
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter which of the remaining cards are used for the dealer's hole card. If the remaining cards are rich, a Ten is more likely. Insurance is played identically in no hole card.
 
bj bob

bj bob

Well-Known Member
BrokenSaints said:
Each player and the dealer is dealt there first card face up, each player is dealt there second card faceup but the dealer does not take there second card yet. The Dealer is showing an Ace and the TC is +3 I18 states I should take insurance however by the time each of the players takes there turn the count could be way different by the time the dealer draws there second card. Insurance closes before the first player plays of course.

Have they made it impossible to effectively play the insurance deviation? Should I still play it in hopes that the count remains the same or gets even more favorable?

Thanks
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As I understand your game, it appears that you're playing with ENHC rules so the dealer does not "peek" until all the players hands are complete. The fact that the dealer plays out the rest of the table first shouldn't have any effect on your insurance decision. It's either TC +3 or not. Just because you don't know the rest of the players hands at the time makes very little difference. You have to make your decision on the current data at your disposal and go with that. The others remaining cards could very well make the count higher as well as lower. It really doesn't matter in the end. This would be just the same if you were playing a face down game ala. pitch. I make all my ins. decisions under these conditions and have no problem in the long run, so just play your game.
 
B

BrokenSaints

Member
But don't I run the risk of the count being unfavorable by the time the dealer get his hole card? If everybody on the table starts getting A and 10 suddenly by the time the dealer draws the count could easily swing from +3 to E or less especially if there are 5 players on the table.
 
bj bob

bj bob

Well-Known Member
BrokenSaints said:
But don't I run the risk of the count being unfavorable by the time the dealer get his hole card? If everybody on the table starts getting A and 10 suddenly by the time the dealer draws the count could easily swing from +3 to E or less especially if there are 5 players on the table.
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Again, as Norm and I have just explained. It doesn't affect your ins. decision. Just think of all those unseen cards as still being in the shoe and that should make you feel better.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
Broken Saints,
As the dealer doesn't check for BJ until after everyone plays their hands out,what happens if you split or double down if he has it? What do you lose?
 
B

BrokenSaints

Member
Dealer has BJ the player loses including splits and double downs. Unless the player hits BJ then you are offered even money or chance 3-2 payout vs a push.
 
KenSmith

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
BrokenSaints said:
But don't I run the risk of the count being unfavorable by the time the dealer get his hole card? If everybody on the table starts getting A and 10 suddenly by the time the dealer draws the count could easily swing from +3 to E or less especially if there are 5 players on the table.
Click to expand...
Others have already answered this, but I wanted to specifically address your concern about the count worsening because of the cards you see before the hole card is dealt.

Yes, sometimes the count will be worse. But, sometimes the count will be even better. And, most importantly, the average true count overall is completely unchanged by the drawing of the extra cards. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, and on average it doesn't matter a bit.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
BrokenSaints said:
Dealer has BJ the player loses including splits and double downs. Unless the player hits BJ then you are offered even money or chance 3-2 payout vs a push.
Click to expand...

Okay,so you know that you don't follow regular BS for this game,correct?
This set of rules needs a very different BS and departure indices than a regular game. You should split and double down far less frequently than in a normal game.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
KenSmith said:
Go back to the Strategy Engine and set the No-Peek option.
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You might want to check that out,ken.
Something doesn't look right with the chart for No peek. Way too many splits for my liking.

What is early surrender except against an Ace?
 
B

BrokenSaints

Member
It means I am alllowed to surrender on any card the dealer is showing except for the Ace I am not allowed to surrender if the dealer is showing ace. I have to do this before the first move is made by the first player at the table.


shadroch said:
You might want to check that out,ken.
Something doesn't look right with the chart for No peek. Way too many splits for my liking.

What is early surrender except against an Ace?
Click to expand...
 
jack.jackson

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
By Tradition, when the Dealer takes No-Hole Card, Additional Wagers are lost(splits and DD) when Dealer has BJ. This isnt Automatically or Neccesarily always the case.

Theres even some Scenarios where the Dealer Takes a Hole-card and Additional Wagers are lost.

If Additional wagers are lost Never Split or Double against a X or A. This means for Both BS and Index departures. However, continue to split AA against a X as usual.

88vX,A
99vA
11vX,A
10vX,A
AAvA
 
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S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
BrokenSaints said:
I am confused about what no peak means. How does the dealer finding out he has blackjack early or late make a difference?
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You have 11 and the dealer shows a ten. You double down and draw a nine. Dealer has an Ace.You just lost twice as much as you would have if dealer checked first.Had he checked first,you wouldn't have had a chance to double down.
Many splits are defensive splits. You don't do them if you will lose the additional bet.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
BrokenSaints said:
It means I am alllowed to surrender on any card the dealer is showing except for the Ace I am not allowed to surrender if the dealer is showing ace. I have to do this before the first move is made by the first player at the table.
Click to expand...

That is not early surrender.
 
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