Heat? Time to back off?

[Preston]

Here is the situation I am in right now:

I have my home casino that I have not had a losing session at since May 03. My wife works there in the cage, and our jobs are similar hours and near each other so we car pool in and I play cards as I wait for her to get off of work. I probably know about 25% of the grave/swing shift employees. I'm even invited to their home poker games.

Last night I bought into a table in the high roller pit to play heads up with dealer at a double deck table. I was going from one hand of $25 to two hands of $125 depending on the count. I only played about 30 min (profited about $500) but in my second shoe I had two pit bosses watching my table exclusively. I colored up and left. Is this heat? Should I back off?

Furthermore, tonight I was playing in the main pit and a dealer who is a good friend of mine (known from outside of the casino, met at one of the employees' parties) directly as me if I count cards. Should I back off or am I just being paranoid?

I play craps usually when I start to feel heat, but this is the first time I've felt anything at this casino.

The worst I've done in 3 months is break even. I play about 4 times a week, think they're catching on?

 

[21forme]

Wow. IMO, you've been on borrowed time for a while, and you may be jeopardizing your wife's job, too.

Are you ratholing enough chips so it looks like you have a loss? If not, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to look at your play record and figure out what's going on.

 

[EasyRhino]

I play about 4 times a week, think they're catching on?

I'd think they'd be catching on at St Mary's School for the Blind Charity Casino night.

 

[Knox]

Sounds like you need to get to know those PBs also.

Your bet spread is too high for a DD game at 1-10. It sounds like you are getting greedy. Try mixing in some cover plays, for example your max bet off the top of the shoe when the PBs are watching. If it wins let it ride even if the count is bad. Try tipping when the PBs are watching. Perhaps a lower spread with some (or more) wonging out. Just kicking around ideas here...

Another important consideration: how important is your wife's job to your financial situation?

 

[Kaiser]

That seems like pretty aggressive betting for a place you go to that often.

How did you handle the question of counting cards, and how did the conversation go?

 

[moo321]

Go get a player's card, and donkey off $20 playing penny slots. That will show up on your record, and might help. If you can play poker a little, that might help as well. Definitely start ratholing chips. And 4 times a week is too much.

 

[Preston]

That seems like pretty aggressive betting for a place you go to that often.

How did you handle the question of counting cards, and how did the conversation go?

I didn't give a direct answer, but I did say I like to quit while I'm ahead.... and that I've been on a lucky streak.

I've done a lot of cover plays -- including max betting two hands off the top with PB watching..also appearing to be steam raising... tipping often.

I've been playing a lot more craps recently to give some variety to my play... also been spending more time at the Caribbean Stud table.. and I've been hitting up their video poker and slots to mix up my play. I can't really play poker as I am a marker customer and that is against the rules of my marker account.

The thing that kinda makes it better is that I made a shitload at craps, hit a slot jackpot, and got quads TWICE at video poker -- and that's all in the last week.

I honestly don't think my wife's job is in question...tho. Only one dealer in table games really knows who I am and that my wife works in the cage.

I have never gotten heat before this at this casino, it was just this past week that I got attention from the pit.

 

[moo321]

Sounds like your doing plenty of cover. Just don't play as much.

 

[bj bob]

On thin ice

Here is the situation I am in right now:Last night I bought into a table in the high roller pit to play heads up with dealer at a double deck table. I was going from one hand of $25 to two hands of $125 depending on the count. I only played about 30 min (profited about $500) but in my second shoe I had two pit bosses watching my table exclusively. I colored up and left. Is this heat? Should I back off?

Furthermore, tonight I was playing in the main pit and a dealer who is a good friend of mine (known from outside of the casino, met at one of the employees' parties) directly as me if I count cards. Should I back off or am I just being paranoid?

I play craps usually when I start to feel heat, but this is the first time I've felt anything at this casino.

The worst I've done in 3 months is break even. I play about 4 times a week, think they're catching on?

Preston, You're definitely playing with fire here.
Your wife's postion not withstanding, you are burning rubber at this house as it is. The 10:1 DD bet spread cannot last indefinitely and showing up 4 times a week just adds to the negative possibilites. Sooner or later you're going to get burned.
As far as a player's card....ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Somewhere in their system they are going to connect the dots between you and your wife, address, phone #, last name etc. One connection between your player's file and her employment records and you're toast!
As to other games in this house, I don't think it makes any difference in thier minds. It just smells funny. Even one backoff can cascade into a jackpot the both of you wouldn't like. People talk and good bosses keep their ears open to idle chit-chat. Once, when I managed a company on the Coast, I overheard a couple of my employees during a break commenting on a co-worker coming in with a "runny nose" and that simple comment stuck in the back of my mind and my radar turned on. To make a long story short, he was gone within 3 mos. for snorting coke.
Moral of story. Don't jeopardize your wife's job etc. for some rather insignificant EV. Weigh the risk/reward ratio.

 

[glovesetc]

well my boy

First ioff it is too easy to track you and your action 4 times a week . That is plain greed and stupidity . Putting your wifes job in ANY kind of jeopardy is even dumber . Once a week and find some other casinos before you get burned BIG time !!!! :grin: :cool2: P.S> the slots cover and poker means nothing by the way except for comps and what you win !

 

[Knox]

Try going from 1 x $25 to 2 x $75. You will lose about 20% of your EV, but you could make up for that in longevity. I'm guess your EV is about 1.5% with the 1-10 spread, so the 1-6 for 1.2% is not too shabby.

I also agree that it sounds like you are overplaying the place. Have you tried mixing the shifts up a bit?

 

[Preston]

...

I've made most of my $$ in the past two weeks there and I'm going to go to lower stakes this week and just casually play.. if I do.

I think it would look weird to just stop considering how much of the staff already knows we are married. They know we car pool in together (since our jobs are nearby) to save money on gas.

They would have to be able to prove that I'm counting.. which is WAY different than someone who is snorting coke. I think I give enough action/cover in other ways that the heat I got this past weekend will probably subside. That and I'm not usually playing that aggressively.

Since I'm going to be there a couple times a week as it is (wife's schedule changed).. I think I'll be playing poker for a while. But then again in September I start training for a new job and I'll be juggling the old one and won't have time to play...

Thing is.. I had planned on taking a break from blackjack there a couple months back -- was playing mostly poker but they threatened to close my marker account if I was going to play in the poker room... hence why I went back to the 21 tables.

I seriously don't understand what grounds they would have to fire my wife if I were to get caught. The entire concept of a casino is a business that advertises "We dare you to try and beat us at our own game."

The employees at this casino are union.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Casinos are run by very cruel people. They don't hate us because we take their money, they hate us because we are smarter and more ambitious than they are. It is personal. They would fire your wife just because they can, and it is unlikely a union would help her, for they have no rea$on to care.

My advice would be to find the best VP game in the house and there is usually at least one you can play for +EV after comps and cashback, and put 75% of your action into that. Then you can work your blackjack sessions in between your VP play. Now you will appear to them to be just another slot player.

 

[Preston]

You guys have got me a little paranoid, but I think it'll all be fine.

I have a tendency to just play 25 cent VP -- not the best games I've ever seen but usually I do ok.

I've gone so far as to ask my wife to look up my players card acct to see if there are any notes on it.

The place makes over a million a week -- I doubt the $100-$200 I've been making per session recently will make much of a dent.

 

[bj bob]

Here is the situation I am in right now:

I have my home casino that I have not had a losing session at since May 03.
The worst I've done in 3 months is break even. I play about 4 times a week, think they're catching on?

Not to propagate the paranoia any further gere, but several things which you have stated do raise eyebrows.
As you stated above, you have not lost there in over 4 years. That's great, but there's also something "wrong" with that picture in management's eye. That's just not supposed to happen with the ordinary player.
As far as my example of busting one of my guys for coke abuse, my point was not that these two are related in any way other than "awareness" of a situation that results in a subsequent consequence. Moreover, I had to have a lot of physical evidence and proof in my scenario, whereas the casino doesn't need squat for probable cause. I bet there a dozens of members here that can verify that.
My overall concern in your situation was your large continual bet spread on DD and the 4/wk face time you are giving to this place. Again each of these factors by themselves are probably harmless, but taken in total they can result in trouble.
Finally, I'm confused as to why you can't play poker there if you're markered. Can't you play cash-up in the poker room or is there some other policy that prohibits you from playing?

 

[EasyRhino]

Preston, I have two concerns.

1) It's not hard to prove that someone is counting. We've had people backed off from the Siena in 20 minutes.

2) I worry that you might be laying so much "cover" that it's costing you more than any advantage from blackjack.

 

[suicyco maniac]

I seriously don't understand what grounds they would have to fire my wife if I were to get caught. The entire concept of a casino is a business that advertises "We dare you to try and beat us at our own game."

Sounds like you have a lot to learn about casinos.

 

[21forme]

There's an old saying:
Don't **it where you eat!

1. Don't expect help from the union if/when there is a problem. Unions exist for one purpose - to fill the pockets of their higher-ups.
2. Don't use logic, reason, or ethical considerations when trying to rationalize a casino's decision-making process.

 

[GeorgeD]

I

They would have to be able to prove that I'm counting.. which is WAY different than someone who is snorting coke. I think I give enough action/cover in other ways that the heat I got this past weekend will probably subside. That and I'm not usually playing that aggressively.
.

They don't have to prove anything to tell you to leave or that you can't play BJ anymore. It's a business that can refuse service to anyone (as long as it's not discriminitory).

I
I seriously don't understand what grounds they would have to fire my wife if I were to get caught. The entire concept of a casino is a business that advertises "We dare you to try and beat us at our own game."

The employees at this casino are union.

Yes, it probably would be an improper termination, but they're smart enough to find some reason ... maybe even set her up for bad cage count or stealing.

In any event neither you or a union would want to spend the resources to fight them in court. The Union will cit bait if it's not a clear violation, and they can litigate you into the poor house.nIf they were really stupid and tols her she was fired because of you with several witnesses who would testify. Maybe you'd have grounds, but even then my gues sis they'd figure a jury would see a couple that was setting them up for a score.

 

[suicyco maniac]

Yes, it probably would be an improper termination, but they're smart enough to find some reason ... maybe even set her up for bad cage count or stealing.

Exactly!!