Help end the spread of 6:5 and H17 games

[bj bob]

/

Count me in :grin:

I did have occasion last week, when I was looking at a 6-5 table with 1 seat open and the dealer asked if I wanted to play. I said I'd rather slit my wrist with a dull butter knife because of the 6-5. She said "well, it doesn't matter much, how often do you get a BJ anyway?"

Needless to say, she asked the wrong guy lol. But, after pointing out to the players they'd lose $9 more an hour than they would at the adjacent table I'm proud to say 3 people left the table by the time I was done.

That seemed to work better than stupid 1.39% stuff or once every 21 hands stuff lol.

3 down, 1 million uninformed people to go lol.

Hey Kasi, how did yoiu arrive at the $9/hr. figure for the 6:5? Actually the way I figure it, it comes out to $7.50/hr. for the $5 bettor( 5 BJ's/hr. x $1.50) and $15/hr. for the $10 bettor assuming SD and 1:21 BJ rate.

 

[Kasi]

Hey Kasi, how did yoiu arrive at the $9/hr. figure for the 6:5? Actually the way I figure it, it comes out to $7.50/hr. for the $5 bettor( 5 BJ's/hr. x $1.50) and $15/hr. for the $10 bettor assuming SD and 1:21 BJ rate.

Pretty much the same way as you did lol - just was assuming a full table so maybe 3 BJ's an hour at a $10 table.

I guess anyway you slice it, it costs an extra 13.9 cents for every $10 initial bet.

The way I get the 1.39% is the chances of getting a winning BJ, since sometimes a BJ will push vs a dealer BJ, times the extra 0.3 units you lose due to the rule. So 0.04649*.3=.0139 Just in case anyone cares since I know you knew that lol.

 

[halcyon1234]

I think it's a nigh impossible task to completely get rid of 6:5. It's a cash cow for the casino. And they love their money based steak.

Instead, use it as a weapon to your advantage. Educate anyone who will listen and keep them off the 6:5. That will lower the amount of money they will get from those players.

But on the other hand, steer as many annoying, ignorant and uneducatable ploppies as you can to the 6:5. You don't want those ploppies playing with you. They're annoying. And they're going to lose all their money anyways, no matter if they are playing 6:5 or 3:2.

So if those players all go to the 6:5, it will leave more 3:2 spaces open. BUT if you are keeping "good" players off the 6:5, then the 6:5 won't become popular enough to become the only game in town.

You win: You have nice players, more open spots, and your player advantage is being "funded" by the 6:5 tables.
The casinos win: They see people handing money over to their 6:5 tables, but still see their 3:2 busy.

In the end, the casino won't really earn all that much more. People who would play 6:5 are already playing so poorly that they're most likely playing at a 30% or worse house edge. They're going to lose their $100 anyways, so when you really think about it, the casino isn't going to "earn" any more from them. Give the casinos the ILLUSION that they're earning more. Just make sure to keep enough people off the 6:5 that the casinos can't justify putting more of those tables in.

 

[EasyRhino]

The ironic thing? A house advantage of 2% or so on a 6:5 game is still better than roulette, caribbean stud, pai gow, three card poker, war... really anything except baccarat and craps.

 

[ihate17]

Perhaps and perhaps not

The ironic thing? A house advantage of 2% or so on a 6:5 game is still better than roulette, caribbean stud, pai gow, three card poker, war... really anything except baccarat and craps.

The house edge in a game like roulette or many other games is pretty constant because the opportunity for the player to make poor decisions is very limited. In blackjack, depending upon the hit, stand, double, split etc decisions a player makes, changes the house edge and the change can be drastic. On a board like this we constantly think of the house edge vs perfect basic strategy and then how we can turn it to our edge by counting and other AP techniques, but that is not the world of the 6/5 table or the world of 99% of players. The house edge vs basic strategy means little in this instance.
Most casinos figure their profit on blackjack to be between 2-3% vs the average player. The casinos have decades of records that prove they make that much and my observation of the average blackjack player certainly agrees with the casinos. So, if 6/5 adds 1.26% or so to the house edge, the reality of profit to the casino is an increase of that amount or perhaps more because the game attracts the worst of players. So, my opinion is that the take for the casino on a typical 6/5 game is between 3.5%-4.5% and nowhere near 2%.

ihate17

 

[mdlbj]

You know, with a good hole card, shuffletrack, ace sequencing, attention to the game in general. A 6:5 game is not that bad. Ask Jerry. He watched me cut to 8 aces on one deal..

 

[Kasi]

Well, if one is a BS player there's obviously alot more to consider than just the house edge.

Hands or spins per hour, different min bets, element of risk to name a few.

 

[ihate17]

basic strategy players do not play 6/5 unless

Well, if one is a BS player there's obviously alot more to consider than just the house edge.

Hands or spins per hour, different min bets, element of risk to name a few.

The only people who know basic strategy and also play 6/5 are advantage players who might be seeing the dealers hole card or something else.

ihate17

 

[aslan]

/

Count me in :grin:

I did have occasion last week, when I was looking at a 6-5 table with 1 seat open and the dealer asked if I wanted to play. I said I'd rather slit my wrist with a dull butter knife because of the 6-5. She said "well, it doesn't matter much, how often do you get a BJ anyway?"

Needless to say, she asked the wrong guy lol. But, after pointing out to the players they'd lose $9 more an hour than they would at the adjacent table I'm proud to say 3 people left the table by the time I was done.

That seemed to work better than stupid 1.39% stuff or once every 21 hands stuff lol.

3 down, 1 million uninformed people to go lol.

If you're all going to the conference at Harrah's, maybe they can get a Griffin camera crew down there. It could be a boon for all the casinos in Vegas to get you guys in the book. assuming you're not there already, in which case they can get up-to-date photos. :laugh:

 

[Kasi]

The only people who know basic strategy and also play 6/5 are advantage players who might be seeing the dealers hole card or something else.

Well a smart BS player might choose to play it if he wanted to minimize his loss per hour.

Like a full 7 seat $5 6-5 table or an almost empty $10 table with basic crappy rules.

I'd likely lose less money in an hour at the former, don't you think?

 

[ihate17]

Perhaps

Well a smart BS player might choose to play it if he wanted to minimize his loss per hour.

Like a full 7 seat $5 6-5 table or an almost empty $10 table with basic crappy rules.

I'd likely lose less money in an hour at the former, don't you think?

Kasi

What you say is true but it is also an extreme. If the 6 deck $10 3/2 table has half the number of players as the 6/5 single deck table, then the 6 deck game will provide a slightly better game depending upon the rules. Make the amount of players equal and even though you are betting twice as much, it is just, no longer that close unless you are playing a horrible 6 deck game.

ihate17

 

[Kasi]

Make the amount of players equal and even though you are betting twice as much, it is just, no longer that close unless you are playing a horrible 6 deck game.ihate17

Well you get the idea lol.

Although, even assuming the same number of hands per hour, which may not be the same as the same number of players, unless you call a 6D H17 DA2 DAS game "horrible", I'm not really going to call losing an extra 40 cents an hour, "not close" or some kind of extreme.

Anyway, should the game ever disappear, one thing for sure, it will be replaced with worse games, not better games.

 

[Cardcounter]

One Way to do that is ask people why they play 6 to 5?

I dare you to go up to a table and ask other players why the play at the 6 to 5 table when there is 3 to 2 table a few tables over that has 3 times better odds. I always thought the study of people on mathimatics and gambling was compelling. ABC once did a study red and green jelly having two plates of jelly beans one had 7 green jelly beans and 93 red ones. Another plate had 1 green jelly bean and 9 red ones. Constestants got to choose witch plate to pick from and if they picked a green jelly bean they would win money! There where a lot of adults who picked the bigger plate because it was more visually intasing even though there chance of winning money was less with the bigger plate than with the smaller one.