Help on Double deck

[Meistro]

for example i used this program :

http://www.bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi


and removed three fours and two tens. the player had an advantage of 0.8914
(starting player advantage of 0.024% because of liberal rules on single deck)

but if you remove three fours and two aces then the player's advantage is only 0.6022

 

[21forme]

INS is lower for the same reason a DD game has a lower house edge than a shoe game with identical rules. That is, there's a higher incidence of a BJ in a DD game. With 104 cards vs 312 cards, every time there is an ace up, the likelihood of the other card being a T is greater in DD, as your denominator for EOR is smaller.

 

[Meistro]

another example, using 4 decks, i removed 4 4s, 4 5s, 4 6s

I then removed 4 tens and 4 aces

player advantage of .1697

then I added two more tens and subtraced two more aces

player advantage of .1217


so this phenomenon is much more pronounced in single deck or double deck especially when most of the aces are gone. and i guess this explains why there is really no point to side counting aces in a shoe game, as the process is quite cumbersome especially if you are playing heads up and playing fast, as the gain is so little, but in pitch there can be significant gains for playing decisions (notably insurance) but also recognizing when some spots aren't quite as profitable as you might otherwise think because of a dearth of aces


see also https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/showthread.php?39736-E-o-R-vs-Ace-Ace-Side-Count

 

[bjo32]

Wow, this is great information! I like how you removed different cards and showed how a player has more of an advantage with more aces remaining (than 10s remaining), even with the same count. I also thought it was interesting how this advantage is impacted by the number of decks, with fewer decks showing more of an advantage with an ace rich deck. This is helpful! I'll definitely incorporate this in my betting strategy. I already do this by keeping track of the type of low cards I see in the first two rounds. Even though I use a one level hi lo count, I understand that removing 4, 5 and 6s from the deck is more important to the player than removing 2 and 3s so if I have a plus 2 count but I've seen mostly 4, 5 and 6s, I'll bet more than if I have a plus 2 count and see mostly 2 and 3s. I guess you could say I somewhat use a two level counting system for the first two rounds. Again, I'm only referring to DD. This obviously doesn't apply to shoes.

But I'm still a little confused on how to count the dealer's ace with hi lo for insurance purposes. Please follow me with this hypothetical case (but it has happened to me before). Assume the following: You're using hi lo and you're NOT ASC, and you have a +3 TC and you haven't counted the dealer's ace yet. Is it correct to count the dealer's ace as -1 in this case, which would give you a +2 TC, which then means you wouldn't take insurance (again, based on the hi lo index)? Or should you count the dealer's ace as +1 (for insurance purposes) and take insurance since the TC would be +4. In this case, you'd be side counting this one ace (the dealer's ace) for insurance purposes. I know this situation doesn't come up often, but it's something I've always wondered about. I hope this question made sense.

It is encouraging to see other people use an ASC with hi lo. I've learned a lot from this post. Thanks!

 

[stopgambling]

for DD hi opt 2 is definitely stronger ( probably 15% - 30%) but you can spread a unit or 2 more and overcome the advantage of hi opt 2 over hi lo . which style of attack would you use? You could also wong out with those terrible shoes which many players don't cause it is DD. You can have the best count but if you are gonna be only playing less than 40k hands with lots of cover , you are " gambling " still. it is the whole attack plan that make or break you .

 

[stopgambling]

Asc or hi opt 2 , Ko whatever method , count you use aint gonna do you much good if you dont reach your certainty with a high N-zero.

 

[xengrifter]

So play basic strategy. Count card with high low with side count of Aces will give me a edge over the house?

JBrear, are you getting all of this?

 

[bjo32]

I understand Hi Opt II with ACS count is a more powerful count than hi lo. I looked into it and have decided I don't want to go to a two level system. I like hi lo since it's easy, it allows me to count and talk to people at the same time, and so far I've been successful with it. I agree with the popular advice of "keeping it simple".

As I stated earlier, the majority (like 70%) of time I ONLY use hi lo with no side counts. But when the dealer is slow, when no one is talking and I'm bored, I'll start keeping a side count of aces, and sometimes I do this with 7s. When I do this, I'd like to know how to use this information better. Meistro helped me with this. I found all his posts very helpful.

Here's the question I've been asking: When I don't side count aces with hi lo, and the dealer has an ace, how do I count the dealer's ace for insurance purposes? Do I count it as -1 or as +1? If I count it as -1 (which is what hi lo says I should do) then this means at a +3 TC (before counting the dealer's ace), I'll be getting a TC of +2 and not take insurance. This doesn't sound right to me. In this unique situation, it makes more sense that the ace should be counted as +1 (only for insurance) and I should take insurance since the TC would be +4.

What do other people do in this situation? How should the dealer's ace be counted in hi lo for insurance purposes?

 

[xengrifter]

When I don't side count aces with hi lo, and the dealer has an ace, how do I count the dealer's ace for insurance purposes? Do I count it as -1 or as +1?

+1 ... 789 as well.

 

[JbearY]

Thank you guys for all the info. I think it will take me some time to understand everything here.

 

[JbearY]

I have a question. If I was playing DD by myself with the dealer. (Using hi opt2 asc)
After 2 plays in the shoe the count goes down to -6. What is my best option to deal with this situation? Regarding betting and playing strategy?

 

[Meistro]

"I have a question. If I was playing DD by myself with the dealer. (Using hi opt2 asc)
After 2 plays in the shoe the count goes down to -6. What is my best option to deal with this situation?"

I recommend that you flat bet the minimum until the count improves.

 

[ZeeBabar]

+1. DD, you play it out being extra careful that you dont show you are an AP by hitting against bust cards and deviating too much from basic strategy.

 

[21forme]

+1. DD, you play it out being extra careful that you dont show you are an AP by hitting against bust cards and deviating too much from basic strategy.

As usual, this is poor advice.

BTW, someone I know who frequents a car forum where Zee is ridiculed for being an idiot, just like he is in the BJ world posted this. I detect a pattern:

"No one cares about these hypothetical trades you keep talking about. We all just sit back and laugh at your stupidity, and we mourn the fact that you are a part of this community. Nothing you have ever posted here has been a good use of server space. Most of us cringe every time we see a thread pop up with your name on it. We click on it, hoping it is your final goodbye to this community. And we are disappointed every single time.

Sure, you can tell yourself that the people who are (justifiably) mean to you are idiots, and that there's something wrong with them. Whatever helps you sleep at night (next to a woman who wouldn't be seen with you if you weren't paying her) but the simple fact is that you are just not wanted here."

Taken from: http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/125528-nismo-daily-driver.html

 

[ZeeBabar]

As usual, this is poor advice.

BTW, someone I know who frequents a car forum where Zee is ridiculed for being an idiot, just like he is in the BJ world posted this. I detect a pattern:

"No one cares about these hypothetical trades you keep talking about. We all just sit back and laugh at your stupidity, and we mourn the fact that you are a part of this community. Nothing you have ever posted here has been a good use of server space. Most of us cringe every time we see a thread pop up with your name on it. We click on it, hoping it is your final goodbye to this community. And we are disappointed every single time.

Sure, you can tell yourself that the people who are (justifiably) mean to you are idiots, and that there's something wrong with them. Whatever helps you sleep at night (next to a woman who wouldn't be seen with you if you weren't paying her) but the simple fact is that you are just not wanted here."

Taken from: http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/125528-nismo-daily-driver.html

Still obsessed. Still following me on other forums, still telling every forum I am on that I am a troll, still manipulating your own posts. Still being selective. Still thinking the forum members need you to protect them from me. Sad and pathetic.

Anyone can pick a dozen of my posts, here and on other forums and see how long they were. Just so pathetic

If you were a bit more mature, you would explain why my advice was poor, but you, as usual, try to make a post about me.

With a minimum bet out, with pit watching, it's silly to hit a 13 against a 5 or 6 because your count calls for it as the deck is extremely negative.

 

[ZeeBabar]

As usual, this is poor advice.

BTW, someone I know who frequents a car forum where Zee is ridiculed for being an idiot, just like he is in the BJ world posted this. I detect a pattern:

"No one cares about these hypothetical trades you keep talking about. We all just sit back and laugh at your stupidity, and we mourn the fact that you are a part of this community. Nothing you have ever posted here has been a good use of server space. Most of us cringe every time we see a thread pop up with your name on it. We click on it, hoping it is your final goodbye to this community. And we are disappointed every single time.

Sure, you can tell yourself that the people who are (justifiably) mean to you are idiots, and that there's something wrong with them. Whatever helps you sleep at night (next to a woman who wouldn't be seen with you if you weren't paying her) but the simple fact is that you are just not wanted here."

Taken from: http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/125528-nismo-daily-driver.html

Hiding behind "someone you know". Coward!!! Admit its you. Bad mouthing others only makes you look bad.

What was the motive for your post? If you thought my advice was bad, you ought to explain why it was bad. However, that would not have served the "fix" you need. You cannot ignore me. See a psychiatrist, please.