Hi Lo

[zengrifter]

i disagree, because think about this.. if you lost over 50% of your bankroll, and then later found out it wasnt due to extremely bad luck, how would you feel? that is the one reason i wont spread, because i have to be 100% sure that the money i have (less than $2000), is enuf..

If wonging, a small spread 1-2 or 1-3 is still better (higher Ev lower RoR) than a flat bet.
If I was wonging with 2000 at 5-min tables I would spread 5-2x15 (1-6). zg

 

[mdlbj]

i disagree, because think about this.. if you lost over 50% of your bankroll, and then later found out it was not due to extremely bad luck, how would you feel?

I have never lost 50% of my bankroll so I could not tell you and have never relied on luck. The math is built into whatever system you use and you should understand that system and apply it perfectly.

that is the one reason i wont spread, because i have to be 100% sure that the money i have (less than $2000), is enuf..

Your bankroll unit is $2.25 your betting unit is $1.12.

That puts you at a 2% risk of loosing half of your bankroll playing perfect HI-LO with CE Adjusted Numbers Play.

i think too many card counters learn a system and jump in and follow it just like it is in the book, and then they lose all their money due to variance, or they get lucky, double their bankroll, start betting more cuz they think the system is awesome, then they still lose it all

I could not agree more, I think most who start out jump the gun a bit, ( including myself ) it has taken years for me to rid myself of bad habits, over betting etc. Taking a more proactive approach, I went directly to a few accomplished APs for guidance and had my ass handed to me. Reality check? Absolutely!

i have read this is very common, and if i ever start seriously doing this (imo, making more than $5/hr), i want to know the exact reasons i lost all my money, or put another way, i want to be sure it was due to hitting that 5% RoR.. i cant calculate my RoR because i dont know all the variables it requires, which sucks

Then you will have to write down or memorize every hand played. Good luck with that. My point was in my previous post is that the details and drawn out descriptions of the mathematical theory really do not interest me. It is about the money for myself and others that I play with. If one over complicates things then some of the fundamentals are lost. In lost I mean, lack of focus on what the task at hand is; playing perfectly.

One of the most valuable lessons I have learned is about money management. I was on a nice run in 03 tripling my BR. I thought I was good. But I had come to realize after analyzing how I had been playing against something I had read written by Mike Aponte, I almost lost it. Now I know it was lucky? Fortunately, I could take a few deep breaths and rethink my plan of attack so to speak.

Took the time to be reeducated ( by the book and system ) and guess what happened?

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

If wonging, a small spread 1-2 or 1-3 is still better (higher Ev lower RoR) than a flat bet.
If I was wonging with 2000 at 5-min tables I would spread 5-2x15 (1-6). zg

one problem.. there are no $5 tables where i live, and spreading $10-25, even if only playing in positive run counts, is still more risky than flat betting $10, and i would like to be convinced otherwise, but i just cant see how only, lets say $2000, is enough to be betting $10-25.. when i first learned counting, i lost $300 in 10 hours flat betting $10 only playing in plus counts, now imagine if i was spreading $10-25, i would have lost probably $500.. "you have to be able to withstand the negative flux tho, thats normal" exactly! believe me, if the math was there, i would spread $10-15 or $10-20

I have never lost 50% of my bankroll so I could not tell you and have never relied on luck. The math is built into whatever system you use and you should understand that system and apply it perfectly.

i do understand it perfectly, but i am not fast enough to know the true count every hand, but according to the books and everybody on here, apparently that isnt very important, and being within 1 tc is "good enough" which i still dont understand how roughly rounded true counts and roughly rounded indicies are still 90% as good as "perfect indicies", which apparently dont exist, which i really dont understand

Your bankroll unit is $2.25 your betting unit is $1.12.

That puts you at a 2% risk of loosing half of your bankroll playing perfect HI-LO with CE Adjusted Numbers Play.

can you tell me where you got these numbers from? the $1.12 is my avg bet betting $10 flat, but what is the $2.25? is that what my average bet could be? with what risk of ruin? and is that betting flat or average bet with a spread, if so what spread? 2% sounds awfully low seeing as how i can be pretty sure my advantage is somewhere under .5%[/QUOTE]

 

[mdlbj]

.3 X 2000/266 = 2.25


2.25 Bankroll Unit

1.12 Betting Unit.

A bank roll spread of 6-1 ( 2.25 )

Betting unit spread of 12-1

Minimum bet half of your BR unit. ( 1.12 )

i do understand it perfectly, but i am not fast enough to know the true count every hand, but according to the books and everybody on here, apparently that isnt very important, and being within 1 tc is "good enough" which i still dont understand how roughly rounded true counts and roughly rounded indicies are still 90% as good as "perfect indicies", which apparently dont exist, which i really dont understand

Understand and play perfectly, sorry I should have been clearer. TC on every hand you will need to practice conversions at the 1/4 deck level. It is absolutely important that you do everything perfectly. I'm not sure who here would disagree with that. While I'm at it, do not worry about any type of heat until you reach black chip level. You can minimize your exposure by not spreading to much. How you ask? Call yourself into a positive shoe, never play @ a -1 etc. Walk away when the count dictates. Play as if you are being called in as a BP on a team. See how that works out for you.

Help with TC conversions. Start with single deck TCs then, move to half deck. By getting to the 1/4 deck, your game will be much stronger. This is something that you can practice anywhere.

indicies: Use the CE adjusted numbers plays for a HI-LO shoe game. Much easier to learn and very powerful.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

.3 X 2000/266 = 2.25


2.25 Bankroll Unit

1.12 Betting Unit.

A bank roll spread of 6-1 ( 2.25 )

Betting unit spread of 12-1

Minimum bet half of your BR unit. ( 1.12 )



Understand and play perfectly, sorry I should have been clearer. TC on every hand you will need to practice conversions at the 1/4 deck level. It is absolutely important that you do everything perfectly. I'm not sure who here would disagree with that. While I'm at it, do not worry about any type of heat until you reach black chip level. You can minimize your exposure by not spreading to much. How you ask? Call yourself into a positive shoe, never play @ a -1 etc. Walk away when the count dictates. Play as if you are being called in as a BP on a team. See how that works out for you.

Help with TC conversions. Start with single deck TCs then, move to half deck. By getting to the 1/4 deck, your game will be much stronger. This is something that you can practice anywhere.

indicies: Use the CE adjusted numbers plays for a HI-LO shoe game. Much easier to learn and very powerful.

where did you get 266 from? also, i never worry about heat, and i think everybody overreacts and gets a kick of out being covert.. i will tell others im counting, i dont care, as im betting $10 flat.. sonny told me that indexes can be very rounded, and it doesnt matter too much, and he also said there is no such thing as "perfect indexes" which i dont see why not, for instance, i dont see why there isnt a list of indexes like "double 9 vs 2 @ tc of 1.156" given exact true count down to a single card.. he claims there is no such thing and it doesnt matter, as do lots of books and others on here.. i dont see how hi-lo lite is almost the same as regular hi-lo, and how indexes vary from book to book.. what do you mean by "use the ce adjusted numbers"

 

[Paradox]

Here are my suggestions

IMO:

Start with the gamemaster school

DO NOT play in a casino for a few months, I know, I know... but deal with it!

You NEED CVBJ from QFIT.com. Just do it, don't ask any question, just do it.

After the gamemaster school, The book you should read, in order, are:

1. Either Bootlegger's 200proof BJ or Arnold Snyder's big book of blackjack. If you want hilo, Boot's book has it. BBoB has a lot more info and I really enjoyed the book. Hell, read both

2. Card Counting for Casino Executives by Bill Zender

3. Professional BJ by Stanford Wong

4. Blackjack Attack3 by Don Schlesinger

5. Burning the Tables in LV by Ian Andersen (this is a great book for comportment, but the actual play style is a bit dated to use today)

---- At this point go to your local casino and just back count without playing, you are a spectator only. OR sit with a friend while they pay the seat rent and count while they play. DO NOT play yourself. -----

6. The Card Counter's Guide to Surveillance by Cellini

7. Blackbelt in BJ. (I love this book. It is a bit dated, but the info is still spot on. This was my third book. If BBoBJ was not out, BBiB would be higher on the list.

Also, get "poking the eye" DVD from BJ21.com

At this point, you should be counting a deck down in under 20 seconds and you should have at least 18 indices memorized. You will have complete confidence in yourself and the knowledge you possess. You are a beast with an enlarged cranium and opposable thumbs, you are damn near unstoppable IF you are prepared. Take the time to prepare yourself. When you have reached this point you should be ready to play for real money. Play the lowest you can for your first 10-hours. I spread $1-$10 just for practice when I started.


Read EVERY item in the library at blackjackforumonline.com and EVERY post in the BJ21 greenchip archives.


Good Luck and Cheers!
Paradox

 

[mdlbj]

The only thing worth getting from the above list is CVBJ from QFIT.com. the rest is ok I guess, unless you like reading. I would rather practice and not read 300 pages of statistics. But thats just me.

In prior posts, I have made comments about reading all these books. If thats how you learn then do it, but in the end, practicing and practical application will put you much farther ahead. I like the idea about going through the blackjack school on that one site, it is pretty decent.

CE ( Certainty Equivalent ) Adjusted Numbers Plays are available from Blackjackinstitute.com.

P.S Our article is just about finished. Still making some changes.