Hilton's 2 deckers

[FLASH1296]

We need to clarify the reality of DD games.

The A.C. game has good rules but barely marginal penetration.

It is a beatable game - if using a count with a high Playing Efficiency, e.g. Hi-Opt II, AOII, Zen

In Las Vegas (and throughout the U S A) most of the DD games are H17 without DAS
and you may face restricted doubling rather than DA2.
Those games, without DEEP pen' are bad news.

In Las Vegas, there exist some DD games with rules the same as in A.C. (and even with S17) - with varying penetration.

That is the good news. The bad news is that …

Those games are mostly High Stakes — that can mean $25 (M.G.M.) or even $500 (Wynn);
AND the noxious paranoia that rules in those pits is severely daunting.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

When I was there...

... the pen was approximately 2/3 of the way down, the game was fast, and the rules were the familiar and acceptable 0.40% DD rules. A PC was hovering, but he seemed more interested in the way the dealer was dealing this new (for them) game than what I was doing, and I was hitting them hard. Wish I could give more helpful info than this but I have less than an hour logged on those tables.

Hilton is one of the few places in AC that sweats counters, but it all seems centered around one PC who wasn't there at the time.

 

[NightOwl]

... the pen was approximately 2/3 of the way down, the game was fast, and the rules were the familiar and acceptable 0.40% DD rules. A PC was hovering, but he seemed more interested in the way the dealer was dealing this new (for them) game than what I was doing, and I was hitting them hard. Wish I could give more helpful info than this but I have less than an hour logged on those tables.

Hilton is one of the few places in AC that sweats counters, but it all seems centered around one PC who wasn't there at the time.

I heard that he no longer works at the Hilton.

 

[bjcount]

Lets face it, the game is beatable, but just barely. At 50% pen is it worth the time to win just 1 unit per hour? If AM was getting 66% pen it should be expected that he was hitting the game hard. You'd be better off counting a good 6d game which can still be found around the ac area. If your only counting this game down it's a long tough road and here are some sims to prove it. In the next post we'll see 62% pen.

sims h17, das, rs4, rsa1, 3:2bj, 1/2d (50% pen), all 1-6 opt spread, $10 unit

1) rpc ra 6d indices used in dd
2) ho2 w/ace sc
3) rpc ra dd
4) zen ra dd

BJC

 

[bjcount]

They are all short 100 million hand sims but you get the point.

Same rules as above post but with 62% pen. $10 unit

1) RPC
2) Zen


BJC

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Lets face it, the game is beatable, but just barely. At 50% pen is it worth the time to win just 1 unit per hour? If AM was getting 66% pen it should be expected that he was hitting the game hard. You'd be better off counting a good 6d game which can still be found around the ac area. If your only counting this game down it's a long tough road and here are some sims to prove it. In the next post we'll see 62% pen.

sims h17, das, rs4, rsa1, 3:2bj, 1/2d (50% pen), all 1-6 opt spread, $10 unit

1) rpc ra 6d indices used in dd
2) ho2 w/ace sc
3) rpc ra dd
4) zen ra dd

BJC

I was giving it quite a bit more than 1-6.

Give it the kind of spread you would normally give an AC game, and watch what happens! Even at 50% pen, if they are letting you get your money down it's worth it.

 

[Thunder]

My opinion

I played the game the other day and I have to say I was quite surprised to see the tables as empty as they were. That said, penetration in the short time I was there ranged from 50-60% They are extremely paranoid about counters. There were two pit bosses there watching me play. You can tell that they are so paranoid because even the dealers are sweating the littlest things. I'm not going to go into detail but let's just say it is a counter trap, nothing else.

 

[Sharky]

competition is good...Delaware, Pennsylvania, and WV will all have a trickle down effect on AC.

WV&DE => PA, PA=> AC

Yes!!!!

 

[aslan]

competition is good...Delaware, Pennsylvania, and WV will all have a trickle down effect on AC.

WV&DE => PA, PA=> AC

Yes!!!!

Nothing but good can come from such competition.

 

[Thunder]

I'd be surprised if Resorts offers 2 decks. They seem to be making a killing with their $2 promotion and don't have enough tables as it is to offer more games.

 

[Thunder]

There are too many amateur counters playing at this game. I saw one guy there who was wonging out every single time the count got bad. Buddy, you're too obvious with your act and you draw too much attention to yourself You know who you are. Be careful.

 

[kewljason]

So are the DD games currently shut down as Abenzio reported on friday or are they up and running again? I will be in AC and conn in a couple weeks and would like to check out the game just for the novelty of it (as a long time AC 6/8 deck player). On new years I postponed a flight 6 days just to check these games and never did get to play them, nor observe anyone else play. I am not going to rearrange my schedule like that again, but would like to check them out. Of course, they could be shut down and reopened several times in the next two weeks the way things are going.

 

[Abenzio]

So are the DD games currently shut down as Abenzio reported on friday or are they up and running again? I will be in AC and conn in a couple weeks and would like to check out the game just for the novelty of it (as a long time AC 6/8 deck player). On new years I postponed a flight 6 days just to check these games and never did get to play them, nor observe anyone else play. I am not going to rearrange my schedule like that again, but would like to check them out. Of course, they could be shut down and reopened several times in the next two weeks the way things are going.

Updating... 2deckers had been shut down during BLIZZARD NUMBER FOUR (Last Friday's Graveshift). Now the games have resumed as usual. The games will be subject to shut down again whenever a BLIZZARD hits AC :grin:.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

OK, the guy obviously has a thing about the Hilton. I like the Hilton, myself. They give me a lot of free appliances, and I've probably made more money there than anywhere else in AC.

You know what they need though? More bafrooms. They're the only casino without a bafroom on the main floor. You end up having to go to the one in the main corridor, and it's always filthy. And they have a shine chair in it. That's just weird, getting a shine in the bafroom.

They also need better liquor service at the tables. Well, the service is OK, but the beverages are lousy. I mean, really lousy! Sometimes you get a dirty glass too. The buffet is awful, the 24-hr cafe almost as bad.

Oh that's right, you wanted to know about the DD game! :laugh: Look man, it's a DD game. Station rules, pen is apparently somewhere between average and lousy. What more do you need to know? Every counter in town is going to give it a whirl, but not obsess with it, because it's not that spectacular. Just like the 4D at Tropicana. Let's not obsess with it here, because we want it to spread through town so AP's have more options.

One benefit for AP's is that if you're an East Coaster who has never played a pitch game before (quite common) and is getting ready for a trip west, you have a place to go and watch or play a little pitch to get used to the different look and feel of it.

 

[NightOwl]

OK, the guy obviously has a thing about the Hilton. I like the Hilton, myself. They give me a lot of free appliances, and I've probably made more money there than anywhere else in AC.

You know what they need though? More bafrooms. They're the only casino without a bafroom on the main floor. You end up having to go to the one in the main corridor, and it's always filthy. And they have a shine chair in it. That's just weird, getting a shine in the bafroom.

They also need better liquor service at the tables. Well, the service is OK, but the beverages are lousy. I mean, really lousy! Sometimes you get a dirty glass too. The buffet is awful, the 24-hr cafe almost as bad.

Oh that's right, you wanted to know about the DD game! :laugh: Look man, it's a DD game. Station rules, pen is apparently somewhere between average and lousy. What more do you need to know? Every counter in town is going to give it a whirl, but not obsess with it, because it's not that spectacular. Just like the 4D at Tropicana. Let's not obsess with it here, because we want it to spread through town so AP's have more options.

One benefit for AP's is that if you're an East Coaster who has never played a pitch game before (quite common) and is getting ready for a trip west, you have a place to go and watch or play a little pitch to get used to the different look and feel of it.

I know one that won't bother trying to play the game.

 

[kewljason]

from 6am until about 6:20am on a this particular weekday (tuesday) the games were $10. I have no idea if table mins were raised after that. As I glanced around the casino, the total players playing anything (even slots) were 10-12, from what I could see.

 

[Sonny]

I think AM summed up this entire thread very well.

Look man, it's a DD game. Station rules, pen is apparently somewhere between average and lousy. What more do you need to know?

In the interest of brevity, let's leave it at that and close the thread. Specific details about penetration, heat and casino employees can be (and should be) made privately. There is likely going to be some pruning of this thread tomorrow to trim away the fat. The posts with relevent information will all be kept, but it would be wise to make sure that you have everything you need from this thread today.

-Sonny-