Hole-carding + Scavenger play

johndoe

Well-Known Member
I doubt that CAA was chased away by any of this; he is probably doing something more productive than bickering on a message board. ZG doesn't have that much influence, and there's no point in inflating his ego even more.

Though if CAA did decide to reduce his presence here, it would be a real shame; the value of the knowledge I've gained from him far surpasses the value of that from every other figure in BJ, combined.
 

zengrifter

Banned
johndoe said:
I doubt that CAA was chased away by any of this; he is probably doing something more productive than bickering on a message board. ZG doesn't have that much influence, and there's no point in inflating his ego even more.

Though if CAA did decide to reduce his presence here, it would be a real shame; the value of the knowledge I've gained from him far surpasses the value of that from every other figure in BJ, combined.
Amen to that.

This is an example of why he's da man >>

 

RJT

Well-Known Member
No-one's chased CAA away. He'll be back.
As to consistency - I've spoken to him in chat maybe 3-4 times a week for several weeks now. His writing style and the consistency of knowledge of, and understanding of our previous conversations has been impecible.
Take this a step further - i've sent him a PM on BC that we've discussed here.
I'd also hasten to add that if someone was posing as him here it wouldn't take long to get back to the real JG on BC and i would think the real man would have spoken with Ken about this.
On useful information - there have been 2 contacts that i've made during my time studying AP that i have learned more practical information from and gained greater understanding of how to really play the game in the real world than i have from all the books i've read combined (and that includes ECAABC - and by this i don't mean by any stretch to devalue that book).
Bojack and ECAA have each, in their own time and in their own area, shared information with me that could not be learned from any book, helped me with problems that seemed huge barriers to my own goals of professional play and provided me with an understanding of the realities of getting the money without getting burned out. For this i am hugely thankful to both men.
And this is not to even mention listening patiently to a neverending stream of what i'm sure are very naive and predominently silly questions....

RJT.
 

zengrifter

Banned
RJT said:
His writing style and the consistency of knowledge of, and understanding of our previous conversations has been impecible.
Take this a step further - i've sent him a PM on BC that we've discussed here.
I'd also hasten to add that if someone was posing as him here it wouldn't take long to get back to the real JG on BC and i would think the real man would have spoken with Ken about this.
No one speculated that the POSING was without his knowledge or permission. IF the theory is correct, it would have been two or more, with JG doing the chats himself, possibly. The other stand ins could presumably be his co-publisher Previn and/or Radar O'Reily, for example, just to further speculate. zg
 
Zen

zengrifter said:
No one speculated that the POSING was without his knowledge or permission. IF the theory is correct, it would have been two or more, with JG doing the chats himself, possibly. The other stand ins could presumably be his co-publisher Previn and/or Radar O'Reily, for example, just to further speculate. zg
You mean someone else may have been posting for him using his pass word etc...hmmm come to think of it Shad alluded to something of that very nature...interesting.

I think that may make some sense... as to what I know of JG I highly doubt he would have went off on any one on a public forum like someone did on you.

BTW, this Radar...is this not the person who posts frequently on the Fight Club, (pretty much defunct and dormant now).. but if I remember correctly has a most fearsome demeanor?

Also, thanks Zen for the link to the article on Scavenger Plays by Previn and JG, it was very interesting and detailed. You must have known all about these plays before the article was written because of the reference in Barfys book concerning you.

CP
 

zengrifter

Banned
creeping panther said:
Also, thanks Zen for the link to the article on Scavenger Plays by Previn and JG, it was very interesting and detailed. You must have known all about these plays before the article was written because of the reference in Barfys book concerning you.
I have been doing the partner doubles thing for years, decades perhaps - see ZGI -
but the Scavenger article really answered a lot of lingering questions, implied in ZGI. zg
 

zengrifter

Banned
creeping panther said:
You mean someone else may have been posting for him using his pass word etc...hmmm come to think of it Shad alluded to something of that very nature...interesting.

I think that may make some sense... as to what I know of JG I highly doubt he would have went off on any one on a public forum like someone did on you.
I have a way with people. Especially BJ Hall of Famers, zg
 

ExhibitCAA

Well-Known Member
I hate to waste even one speck of bandwidth on a nonsensical conspiracy theory, but now that it is picking up some followers (shadroch, cpanther), and I'm trying to clean up some loose ends, I have no choice.

I already addressed the issue in my post here:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=163379#post163379

For me to have addressed the issue already, and ZG to continue posting about it is equivalent to ZG saying I'm a liar. But, for everyone who hasn't followed previous threads, let me say that no one but me has or has ever had access to the ExhibitCAA account. Every letter ever posted or chatted was from my own fingers. As an old-school programmer, I would never even give a password away to ANYONE for any personal account of any kind. To suggest that multiple identities are behind the ExhibitCAA handle is absolute rubbish. And to suggest that Radar (someone I haven't had any contact with whatsoever in years) or PMank (someone who criticizes/questions my wasting of time here) would have any connection makes it a pretty pathetic conspiracy theory, as far as conspiracy theories go.

ZG, before you get impressed with yourself about how well you push people's buttons, let me clarify something: YOU don't push my buttons at all, but OTHER people push my buttons when they believe your garbage. So, if I knew that everyone here could see through your garbage, I'd have no need to reply to you whatsoever, but then I read stuff like this gem from cp: "... that may make some sense... as to what I know of JG I highly doubt he would have went off on any one on a public forum like someone did on you."

cpanther, of course I would go off on someone in a public forum, if I considered that person a poser of the lowest character (being "quirky" is not much of a defense). Mike R. and I SUED the Griffin Detective Agency, trying to end Beverly Griffin's livelihood. I can't think of any more public, personal, and damaging attack than that!

ZG: "Yeah, thats the one. She's Arnold Snyder's wife and she's a real spitfire, even when just posting as herself."

ZG, you're worse than Griffin. YOU start it by posting a nonsensical conspiracy theory regarding my handle, and now pile on as if that theory is an accepted fact, with the phrase "even when just posting as herself," which implies that she is in fact posting using other handles, which in the context of the latest debate, implies using my ExhibitCAA handle.

But regarding other issues, notice that all the evidence that you are digging up is completely consistent with my recollection of things. Barfarkel's article in BJInsider is one example. Someone (probably Aslan) posted the nonsensical statement that I must be jealous of your growing reputation, and that maybe I will lose out on the acclaim I deserve. Yeah, that's it, I worry that on the rankings of holecarders, Casey Kasem will announce that ZG has passed JG. That's what I'm worried about. (My other favorite suggested motivation--that I'm trying to sell books. That's a gooder!!)

Actually, it irks me when posers give bad advice. For you and Barfarkel to give bad advice to inexperienced players is as bad as the conmen progression sellers. Regardless of whether the bad advice applies to games in which there's an edge anyway, it's still bad advice that will cost people. Splitting Tens (which you continue to defend) is a rookie move. Don't for one second use my chart as a rationalization. The chart would also say that hitting or surrendering a hard 19 is better than standing against a 20, but only a moron would make either of those plays. When I see rookies in the wild playing hole-card games badly (usually by getting absurdly low), it REALLY stresses me out. It's terrifying, actually. It's just not the way you do it. My favorite line from Top Gun (paraphrasing): "Your old man? Yeah, he did it right."

As for my other main issue, your exaggeration of your involvement in my legal case, your post is probably the best example (but there were others):

ZG: "When [stalker's] partner was sitting in the slammer for a play gone bad in Y2K he didn't hesitate to call me (THE NEOPHYTE) for advice, and that advice led to a multi-hundred-thousand-dollar settlement for the partner."

Where do we start correcting the misinformation? First of all, I wasn't stalker's partner. My partner was MRus-so. Second, doesn't stalker say that he didn't call you (but since that one's hearsay, I'll let it go for now). Third, the advice did NOT "[lead to]" a multi-hundred-thousand-dollar settlement for the partner.

By your latest claims, all you did was pass on the name Bill Terry. Bill Terry's name was not news to us (he's only one of the most well-known, respected lawyers in the state). We have personal connections with Bill Terry going back decades. We needed two lawyers; my personal attorney was Richard Wright. Furthermore, the criminal attorneys did nothing. There were never any charges filed. Finally, the settlement we achieved in the CIVIL suit had nothing to do with Terry and Wright, who are the CRIMINAL attorneys. In fact, our criminal attorneys advised AGAINST pursuing a civil action. We pursued a civil action anyway, back in an era when the expectation of such an action was negative. We didn't even have a lawyer to handle the case, and M and I interviewed several, including Bob. I can even recount some of those interviews. What made the difference was that Bob conveyed to us a passion for the case. We said to each other, "This guy Bob gets it. He wants to win. We need a dogged wrestler for this one." It is BECAUSE of the hard work, doggedness, conviction, financial stamina, and cleverness of our small crew that suing casinos is now a positive play for the AP. You had NOTHING to do with it.

Our case against the casinos was the perfect storm. The weeks in court, prepping at the office, dining at Jazzed with M at night--it was an intense experience. No one, not even family and friends, will ever quite understand what we shared during that fight (much like what I imagine the bonds of soldiers, or the flight passengers in Alive). I consider my days on the witness stand to be one of my greatest attacks on casinos ever. Bob and Thea are now building quite the reputation with their "boutique practice" now, but then there is Mike, who was the perfect teammate for this case, but who is the unsung hero. Our foursome was perfect, and I also thank the several personal friends and APs who came to the courthouse, too, like Al Rogers. I don't recall seeing you there even. In fact, I would say that you had NOTHING to do with any of it. So when I read any statement suggesting otherwise, I think it cheapens the achievement of our crew (Bob, Thea, Mike, and me).

For me to participate extensively here requires constant rationalization, and also some attempt to minimize the cost (such as chatting when I'm working on numbers in other windows). Many of the high-end APs do not participate here, because they don't have numbers-running, multitasking capabilities to reduce the cost, and their benefit is about the same as mine--almost zero. Your ability to win flame wars with some of these APs is not based on superior persistence or unflappableness; you can win because with these APs, apathy will kick in, and they will lose their ability to constantly rationalize.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
Just for the record, I brought up my questions on your id being used by multiple people in a PM to sonny several months ago. I forget the exact posts, but there was a series that was quite unlike anything you' d previously posted and I asked him if he was sure you were who you claimed you were.
It had nothing to do with ZG or this latest dust-up.
 
sonny

shadroch said:
Just for the record, I brought up my questions on your id being used by multiple people in a PM to sonny several months ago. I forget the exact posts, but there was a series that was quite unlike anything you' d previously posted and I asked him if he was sure you were who you claimed you were.
It had nothing to do with ZG or this latest dust-up.
On May 25th 07 "Stalker", posted to the CAA site that there was a poster registered on that site, "sonny" that may have "outed" him on BJinfo and may be a casino employee and should not be trusted. I wonder if this has anything to do with your post that I quoted....although the timeline is off.

CP
 

zengrifter

Banned
ExhibitCAA said:
I hate to waste even one speck of bandwidth on a nonsensical conspiracy theory, but now that it is picking up some followers (shadroch, cpanther), and I'm trying to clean up some loose ends, I have no choice.... bla bla bla and blaaaaaaaaah
A bit redundant at this point to warrant a response from moi, don't you think?
Does this mean that you won't accept my apology in the spirit it was given?

Methinks thou protesteth too much. zg

Ps - Previn is right.
 

zengrifter

Banned
creeping panther said:
On May 25th 07 "Stalker", posted to the CAA site that there was a poster registered on that site, "sonny" that may have "outed" him on BJinfo and may be a casino employee and should not be trusted. I wonder if this has anything to do with your post that I quoted....although the timeline is off.
Vintage Stalker - he outed himself here, then posts around town that everyone's favorite
moderator here at WBPITTW is an untrustworthy casino mole. But ExCAA says -

 

zengrifter

Banned
My previously posted apologies to JG >>

zengrifter said:
I apologize to ExhibitCAA for possible exaggerated description of my implied impact on the author's real world victory over Caesars (and especially Griffin) - JG struck a blow for APs everywhere, and he turned getting backroomed into a potentially lucrative advantage play. Kudos. zg

Ps - I also apologize for implying that the author may suffer from brain-chemical imbalance due to underlying affliction. What I meant to say is that... there are a number of decaffeinated coffees on the market now that have the same great taste as the high octane variety...
And again >>

zengrifter said:
Here (below) is the closest I can find to the offending 'exaggeration - it was a reaction to Stalker's behavior 2.5+ years ago, I beleive - (again I aplogoze for imagining that my advice - to someone (Stalker) who, it turns out, had nothing to do with anything, nor did Stalker ever imply to me it did - and recommendation of counsel, and predicted outcome - was anything more than a lucky guess and coincidence, and then spouting off about it in an inappropriate manner.) zg
zengrifter said:
I honestly don't have a problem with [Stalker], except when he goes on the attack, meritless, extreme outing of me, and withholds my password from the Fight Club he moderates while he continue to post smack about me.

Little known:
When his partner was sitting in the slammer for a play gone bad in Y2K he didn't hesitate to call me (THE NEOPHYTE) for advice, and that advice led to a multi-hundred-thousand-dollar settlement for the partner.
 

Pro21

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
Yeah, thats the one. She's...a real spitfire, even when just posting as herself. zg
Am I the only one that finds this wildly inappropriate??? I don't think anyone should be outed on these boards.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
Pro21 said:
Am I the only one that finds this wildly inappropriate??? I don't think anyone should be outed on these boards.
I thought that was way out of line too - i've known who the handle was for a good while, but as far as i know the person's never outed themselves.

RJT.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
Pro21 said:
Am I the only one that finds this wildly inappropriate??? I don't think anyone should be outed on these boards.
I guess I shouldn't have told everyone that you were in fact Princess Leia...
 

zengrifter

Banned
Pro21 said:
Am I the only one that finds this wildly inappropriate??? I don't think anyone should be outed on these boards.
I think you are right - I edited the outing on the offending post.
You'll need to edit the quote in yours. zg

Ps - For the record Radar's relationship is not a closely guarded secret.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
gee wilikers

Okay Boys and Girls.. it's time for a "Kiss and Makeup" session followed by a Group HUG. Too close to the holidays for all this nonsense. :)

Let's hear it ZG and CAA .... Real Men Forgive, Forget, and get over it!

-DB
(Emissary for Peace)
 
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